Is 12500 still going to be limit for light and medium

ddiggler · Post by **ddiggler** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:51 am

Somebody told me yesterday the B350 and J31 would no longer be medium weight aircraft as the limit would be pushed beyond 15400. Could this be true.

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:54 am

According to TC, a heavy a/c is one which weighs more than 12,566lbs (5700kg). It's somewhere in CARs 101, defintions.

Aircraft that weigh more than 12,500lbs are certified as a transport category a/c, which is not the same thing necessarily as a "heavy" a/c.

I could always be wrong though, so hopefully someone out there more knowledgeable will pitch in.

Sure Shot · Post by **Sure Shot** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:01 am

dont these define the different categories:

/H – HEAVY, to indicate an aircraft type with a maximum certificated takeoff mass of 136 000 kg (300 000 lbs) or more.
/M – MEDIUM, to indicate an aircraft type with a maximum certificated takeoff mass of less than 136 000 kg (300 000 lbs), but more than 7 000 kg (15 500 lbs).
/L – LIGHT, to indicate an aircraft type with a maximum certificated takeoff mass of 7 000 kg (15 500 lbs) or less.

turbine works fine · Post by **turbine works fine** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:04 am

HEY Ddiggler...u dont believe me!!!!!!!!!!!:)

hydro · Post by **hydro** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:26 am

We (at Navcanada) received a memo saying the same thing, that "transport Canada has approved the use of ICAO wake turbulence categories". 7000kg/15500 lbs In our case its effective immediately.

hydro

MCA · Post by **MCA** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:37 am

exact. the SW4 and JS31 now fall on the limit of Light/Medium, according to that memo.

No more BS · Post by **No more BS** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:27 pm

14500lbs SW4 is L,

16000lbs SW4 is M

grimey · Post by **grimey** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:39 pm

You'll be catagorized as what you file. So if you're an SW4 and file as a M, that's what you'll be.

ddiggler · Post by **ddiggler** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:42 pm

As I see it, there are weights categories for wake turbulence thence H, M and L. As C-HRIS mentionned, if I can read well, the transport weight categories are a differet scale and applies as before.

So flying a J31 or B350 or anything heavier than 12500 counts as Medium time.

Just asking because it would not make any sense to run after a medium capt job if it ain't medium any more

BTW Turbine Works Fine, hope you're wrong cuz cerveza is going to flow on your bill.

CD · Post by CD » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:42 pm

Interesting...

The TC AIM RAC 3.16.3 Item 9 contains different category weights than does the Standard 821 under Definitions. Perhaps some folks at TC in Air Navigation Standards need to talk with each other...

TC AIM RAC 3.16.3 Item 9: Number and Type of Aircraft and Wake Turbulence Category

CAR Standard 821 - Canadian Domestic Air Traffic Control Separation

MCA · Post by **MCA** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:59 pm

yeah... and those definitions still include "RVSM Transition Area", which is now outdated by almost 2 years!
good job, guys.

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:53 pm

CD wrote:Interesting...

The TC AIM RAC 3.16.3 Item 9 contains different category weights than does the Standard 821 under Definitions. Perhaps some folks at TC in Air Navigation Standards need to talk with each other...

TC AIM RAC 3.16.3 Item 9: Number and Type of Aircraft and Wake Turbulence Category

CAR Standard 821 - Canadian Domestic Air Traffic Control Separation

15,000lbs is an ICAO classification. 12,500lbs is a Transport Canada classification.

Also, these weight classifications are for wake turbulence only.

giligan · Post by **giligan** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:10 pm

You guys are talking about 2 different things.

NAV Canada talks about a light as 15500 or less.

TC says you need an ATPL to fly something over 12500.

Wake turbulence and Licence category. Two different things. IMHO
gil

Scuba_Steve · Post by **Scuba_Steve** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:25 pm

Am I wrong or did they not remove the 12500 resitriction from the ATP and make it based on an Aircraft with a Minimum flight crew of 2 or more?

I flew a 350 w/o an IATRA, but its MFC of 1 not 2

Cheers

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:16 pm

I just asked yc gnd about this on friday and he said it's a new thing handed down to ATC from Navcan that the classification on light and medium changed for wake turbulence seperation. He said the pilot can waive the 3 minute light behind a medium for intersection departures but not the 4 nm. (RAC 4.1.1, AIR 2.9)

Was there a crash casued by this or something? Is this just another way for controllers to not have to "work soo hard" maybe?

zzjayca · Post by **zzjayca** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:58 pm

The briefing we received at work said the change was implemented to bring us in line with the ICAO wake turbulence weight categories.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:53 am

Just to echo zzjayca, as of October 25, the ICAO wake turbulence categories/weights are now being used as opposed to the previous TP143 descriptions. The new CAATS software has the ICAO numbers in it (and has from the start which did cause warnings when a filed turbulence category differed from the data base).

Wake turbulence is certainly viewed differently in different countries. The UK has 4 categories (Light, Small, Medium, Heavy) and Heathrow actually utilizes 5 (Light, Small, Lower Medium, Upper Medium Heavy). The 757 falls into the "Upper Medium" category, and there are major differences in spacing required on final approach for all the types. Here in Canada a light behind a heave requires 6 miles, in the UK it's 8.