Agaim I'm getting ready for another group of PPC trainees and getting bored. So here goes.

So when you are teaching steep turns, all four different types of them do you

1. Do a HASEL check
2. Set the aircraft up in advance to a particular airspeed
3. Climb to a higher altitude

and if so why.

1. No, I only have them do a HASEL before any maneuver with sudden altitude lost. Just do a 360 look-out

2. Yes, have the A/C stable and trimmed makes it easier for the student.

3. No, if 2000' AGL you're fine, you better not be losing more then 100'

I will add the limitations I put on my students. If any of the below are exceeded recover/return to normal flight

1. +/-10 kts
2. +/- 100'
3. + 10 degrees of bank

Explain if they exceed these limits they could be in a spiral and need to perform the proper recovery.

Lurch

Forgot to add 2000' AGL to start incase of a spiral or when they are solo. When they get good I drop them down to 500' better horizan and the ground throws them for a loop.

Why would you do a 360 look out before a steep turn?

I'd have a look both ways, but to do a shallow turn that will take me longer just doesn't make any sense to me. Steep turn in itself can be your lookout.

From lesson #1, they should know what the steep range looks like.

I'd have them pick a bug on the windshield, and keep it on the horizon. I'd also cover all the instruments up as well, this way their head stays outside the cockpit.

Don't turn the A/C 360 degrees, turn your head 360 degrees, I said 360 look-out not turn check. Start at the back window at your side and go around until the back window on the other side.

Lurch wrote:1. No, I only have them do a HASEL before any maneuver with sudden altitude lost. Just do a 360 look-out

2. Yes, have the A/C stable and trimmed makes it easier for the student.

3. No, if 2000' AGL you're fine, you better not be losing more then 100'

I will add the limitations I put on my students. If any of the below are exceeded recover/return to normal flight

1. +/-10 kts
2. +/- 100'
3. + 10 degrees of bank

Explain if they exceed these limits they could be in a spiral and need to perform the proper recovery.

Lurch

Thats what I would say too...except I'm a bit stricter then Lurch....for someone who already knows how to do a Steep turn (aka PPC)
1. +/-10 kts
2. +/- 50'
3. + 5 degrees of bank

An experienced pilot should not be doing a manouver at limits...

Why would you do a 360 look out before a steep turn?

Why?...cause someone may be flying behind you. I'magine following someone & all of a sudden they do a 180 right infront of you
You don't have to fly a 360...just LOOK 360

PPC as in Pilot proficiency Check or PPL Private pilots Licence?

I use 100' as a recovery altitude I would like to see if they can regain the altitude without blowing another limit.

I took Bobs comment as why turn the aircraft 360 degrees, but wouldn't be suprised if he doesn't bother looking.

1. Nope
2. Nope
3. Nope

JW

Justwork wrote:1. Nope
2. Nope
3. Nope

JW

Hmm can you expand on that?

Lurch wrote:Don't turn the A/C 360 degrees, turn your head 360 degrees, I said 360 look-out not turn check. Start at the back window at your side and go around until the back window on the other side.[/quote

Why would you do a 360 look out before a steep turn?

Why?...cause someone may be flying behind you. I'magine following someone & all of a sudden they do a 180 right infront of you
You don't have to fly a 360...just LOOK 360

So a lookout of 360 degrees but not moving the airplane.... ok.

Some instructors use this technique;

if you can't teach em, confuse em.

p.s. not everyone flies a cessna.

Following someone in the practice area? Now come on.

The PPC is on a PA31-350 the steep turn is part of the ride.

Wasn't Me wrote:The PPC is on a PA31-350 the steep turn is part of the ride.

Back when I did mine, he wanted me at 4K, wanted the first half of the turn at 30 degrees, and then the second half at 45.

Once to left and to the right.

Note: I thought we were talking about ab initio training earlier on, my mistake.

Lurch wrote:I took Bobs comment as why turn the aircraft 360 degrees, but wouldn't be suprised if he doesn't bother looking.

Maverick,

Why you gotta take things personally?

Look dude, you keep up this attitude in the practice area, once you're out in the real world, hopefully it would change.

45 degrees isn't a "steep" turn (snicker).

A normal turn is 60 and 2G, imho

You want steep? Start off with 75 and 4G, and increase the bank and G until you either hit your airframe G limit, or your airspeed starts to decline (in level flight) in which case you're power-limited.

Ball in the center the whole time - that goes without saying

Wanna see a real steep turn?

http://superbikeplanet.com/image/2006/m ... d/18st.htm

are we seriously have this conversation?

it's a steep turn. get over it.

Hedley wrote:45 degrees isn't a "steep" turn (snicker).

A normal turn is 60 and 2G, imho

You want steep? Start off with 75 and 4G, and increase the bank and G until you either hit your airframe G limit, or your airspeed starts to decline (in level flight) in which case you're power-limited.

Ball in the center the whole time - that goes without saying

Wanna see a real steep turn?

http://superbikeplanet.com/image/2006/m ... d/18st.htm

No paint on his knee and that's a "Steep Turn"?