Carl Millard dies @ 93 years old
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
In general terms, if an individual did not receive my respect while alive, his death will not change my mind.Respect for the dead.
Regarding Millard, I only know what I've read and been told. From that, he's not a man I had any respect for. He seemed to be a shining example of the exploitive form of aviation employer.
I couldn't agree more...ch135146 wrote:In general terms, if an individual did not receive my respect while alive, his death will not change my mind.Respect for the dead.
Regarding Millard, I only know what I've read and been told. From that, he's not a man I had any respect for. He seemed to be a shining example of the exploitive form of aviation employer.
Respect is earned in life, not bestowed upon death.
In the words of the immortal "DUKE ELEGANT"gr8gazu wrote:I couldn't agree more...ch135146 wrote:In general terms, if an individual did not receive my respect while alive, his death will not change my mind.Respect for the dead.
Regarding Millard, I only know what I've read and been told. From that, he's not a man I had any respect for. He seemed to be a shining example of the exploitive form of aviation employer.
Respect is earned in life, not bestowed upon death.
HONOUR IS A MANS GIFT TO HIMSELF
regardless of this...Mr. Millard does have a place in the legacey of aviation
There is no substitute for BIG JUGS!!
Your "support" from the "boys" comes from pilots (?) who never met the man. They admit as much in their comments.
I knew Carl well. Did many trips with some fine guys on his -3's. A lot of guys got their start with Carl. And, yes, some slept in the hangar. And were not paid well for it......HOWEVER....they actually FLEW airplanes! Some on his Twin Comanche, as PIC's. A far cry from today's standard of being a slave on a ramp for a year or more before even being allowed to touch a 185! Seems suddenly Okay today?
So enjoy your "support" from clueless wonders who don't have any idea who Carl was. But, I know I'd respect you a lot more if you kept your opinion for things you knew something about?
I found Carl always to be a gentleman when I dealt with him. I think aviation is a little poorer with his passing.
RIP Carl.
Captain Feather.
I knew Carl well. Did many trips with some fine guys on his -3's. A lot of guys got their start with Carl. And, yes, some slept in the hangar. And were not paid well for it......HOWEVER....they actually FLEW airplanes! Some on his Twin Comanche, as PIC's. A far cry from today's standard of being a slave on a ramp for a year or more before even being allowed to touch a 185! Seems suddenly Okay today?
So enjoy your "support" from clueless wonders who don't have any idea who Carl was. But, I know I'd respect you a lot more if you kept your opinion for things you knew something about?
I found Carl always to be a gentleman when I dealt with him. I think aviation is a little poorer with his passing.
RIP Carl.
Captain Feather.
Sorry to bust your "holier than thou" bubble Doc, but I have been around an awfully long time as well and even knew CM. We all see things differently in life and a guy I thought of as an ass may be a great guy to you. I have also known Rudy Jens, Roy Moore and Max Ward and liked every one of them and appreciated their very significant contributions to Canadian aviation. That doesn't mean you would have had the same opinion. Nor does it mean you would respect them upon their passing.
As a moderator you don't have to be moderate in your opinions, you just have to moderate discussion. You neglect that duty when you make broad and inaccurate comments while knowing nothing of those you criticize.
As a moderator you don't have to be moderate in your opinions, you just have to moderate discussion. You neglect that duty when you make broad and inaccurate comments while knowing nothing of those you criticize.
I began flying in 1976 in Southern Ontario and began my flying career four years later. So I may not know who he was, but I do know what he did.Doc wrote:...clueless wonders who don't have any idea who Carl was.
Carl Millard exploited his pilots. This is common knowledge. He may have been a great guy otherwise, but this being an aviation forum, his reputation as an flying employer will remain the man's legacy to many of us.
upandaway....three weeks ago, if you'd started a thread about Carl, stating your learned opinion on the man, we may have had a jolly good debate. There are always two sides to an argument! But, to make comments like "Take the field bitch." make you look like a total ass!
gr8gazu....that's the point I'm trying to make here......I've never seen a total lack of respect for someone who has passed, displayed on this forum by anyone, ever, that comes close to upandaway's remarks.
This is my last post on the matter. As I said, Carl was always good to me, and I respected him.
gr8gazu....that's the point I'm trying to make here......I've never seen a total lack of respect for someone who has passed, displayed on this forum by anyone, ever, that comes close to upandaway's remarks.
This is my last post on the matter. As I said, Carl was always good to me, and I respected him.
Agree in full Doc. ThanksDoc wrote:upandaway....three weeks ago, if you'd started a thread about Carl, stating your learned opinion on the man, we may have had a jolly good debate. There are always two sides to an argument! But, to make comments like "Take the field bitch." make you look like a total ass!
gr8gazu....that's the point I'm trying to make here......I've never seen a total lack of respect for someone who has passed, displayed on this forum by anyone, ever, that comes close to upandaway's remarks.
This is my last post on the matter. As I said, Carl was always good to me, and I respected him.
Doc, nice post. Say what you want about the way he may have gone about some things, but he was a great guy and a true aviation great. He was very good to me and I have nothing but good things to say. Many a professional pilot in Canada and abroad can thank Carl for their start. Compared to todays standards, what he "charged" for a PPC and what you got was a great deal. $3000.00, Comanche Captain and DC3 F/O...not a bad deal!
Anyhow just my two cents.
Any comments from people who actually flew for him and not just the pilot wannabees and knowitalls who generally congregate on these forums?
Anyhow just my two cents.
Any comments from people who actually flew for him and not just the pilot wannabees and knowitalls who generally congregate on these forums?
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glassjar 22
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I was a young DC3 captain at Millard's about twenty-five years ago. (I remember you Capt. Feather!). Carl was not my friend, he was my employer, so I can be objective here. I never once saw him screw his employees. Like Feather said, he always behaved as a gentleman when I worked for him. When I signed on (late 1970's), I paid $1,000 up front, and another $1,000 when I PPC'd on the '3. This got you, within about six months, capt. PPC's on Aztec, Twin Commanche, Navajo, BE18, and '3 F/O. You stayed current on all types. After a year, if you hadn't bent any metal, you got $800 back. Was this contract worth it? You bet it was!! I went from C150 instructor to DC3 captain in a year and was a DC4 captain a year after that! Was it a perfect place to work? Hell no! The duty hours were long, on call 24/7, no wx radar, no autopilot, flying in crappy wx. But nobody held a gun to our heads and made us fly. And I never saw Carl criticize anyone for going to the alternate. Many young pilots quit because they couldn't hack the flying for various reasons and went away bad-mouthing Carl. Maybe the source of Carl's bad press? Anyway, lots of good memories. My 2.5 cents worth.
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Cat Driver
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If there were more Carl Millards in aviation Canada would be far better off.
Not only did I know Carl, Wayne and I learned to fly together and they both were very good to me.
A prevous poster put it in the proper light, those who critize Carl are most likely the ones who shouldn't be in aviation due to not having the ability to be pilots in the first place.
Wayne if you read this I'm truly sad your dad is gone, but you can be proud of him.
One thing I'll never forget was flying with him in his Grumman Widgeon.
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Not only did I know Carl, Wayne and I learned to fly together and they both were very good to me.
A prevous poster put it in the proper light, those who critize Carl are most likely the ones who shouldn't be in aviation due to not having the ability to be pilots in the first place.
Wayne if you read this I'm truly sad your dad is gone, but you can be proud of him.
One thing I'll never forget was flying with him in his Grumman Widgeon.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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slob driver
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Firstly, I must admit that I did not know Carl Millard, and never worked for him, so I cannot make any comment as to the man himself. I can say that I believe he was one of the first pioneers of the training bond that people like Doc oppose so much on this forum (as do I).
Now Doc, haven't you put down people that pay money up front to get PPC'ed on a type on this forum before (see Voyageur overseas posts), yet you defend Millardair. Is this because you worked there, and payed the bond, so you feel you must defend Carl Millard's ways? I had surmised from earlier posts that you had worked for Millardair at some point and had often wondered if you had bought a PPC at some time or another when you where there. This thought process rung in my head especially when you were going after young pilots who worked on a ramp or paid a bond to get typed on a King Air or MU-2 etc. etc. In my mind, if this is the case, this seems a tad hypocritical. Just wondering if you did in fact pay for a PPC when with Millardair? It seems to me that if you did, then you were a pioneer of what has come to be known as the "Jetsgo phenomenon", which in fact was happening well before Jetsgo.
If you did not pay for a type rating, then fair enough. I do believe that stating that pilots are "whores" that buy a type rating, yet defending Carl Millard is most certainly contradictory at best. I know that you said that you would not reply on this subject matter again, but I am interested to hear what you have to say. I do agree with pretty much everything that you say, and have a lot of respect for where you fly and the company you ply your trade for. I am just curious about your thoughts on what I have posted above.
In regards to Carl Millard's business practices other than the training bond issue, I believe him to be a true pioneer of Canadian aviation. An amazing story about him deadsticking the HFB320 Hansa jet after losing both engines! Quite a pilot!
Yours truly,
Mark Baragar
Now Doc, haven't you put down people that pay money up front to get PPC'ed on a type on this forum before (see Voyageur overseas posts), yet you defend Millardair. Is this because you worked there, and payed the bond, so you feel you must defend Carl Millard's ways? I had surmised from earlier posts that you had worked for Millardair at some point and had often wondered if you had bought a PPC at some time or another when you where there. This thought process rung in my head especially when you were going after young pilots who worked on a ramp or paid a bond to get typed on a King Air or MU-2 etc. etc. In my mind, if this is the case, this seems a tad hypocritical. Just wondering if you did in fact pay for a PPC when with Millardair? It seems to me that if you did, then you were a pioneer of what has come to be known as the "Jetsgo phenomenon", which in fact was happening well before Jetsgo.
If you did not pay for a type rating, then fair enough. I do believe that stating that pilots are "whores" that buy a type rating, yet defending Carl Millard is most certainly contradictory at best. I know that you said that you would not reply on this subject matter again, but I am interested to hear what you have to say. I do agree with pretty much everything that you say, and have a lot of respect for where you fly and the company you ply your trade for. I am just curious about your thoughts on what I have posted above.
In regards to Carl Millard's business practices other than the training bond issue, I believe him to be a true pioneer of Canadian aviation. An amazing story about him deadsticking the HFB320 Hansa jet after losing both engines! Quite a pilot!
Yours truly,
Mark Baragar
