Still a good move to Jazz??

the original tony · Post by **the original tony** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:51 am

just wanted to thrown the question out there and see what the moral majority thought.
Just finished my upgrade to Cpt on the 1900, got a call from jazz, did the int and sim, waiting for the med.
with so many hires, and not many more to go, is it still a good move to try Jazz?
i know it's an excellent company, but............
any suggestions?? or opinions???
thanks

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:25 am

Guess it all depends on your other options and what you want to do in your career. Are you happy where you are? If you want to move into the airline side of things, are you willing to take the chance that AC or Westjet will call soon and that you'll get hired by them? Personally I don't see the hiring slowing down to much at Jazz in the next little while. We are short pilots right now and there are more ready to move to AC as soon as they can be replaced. Personally I would take the job if it was offered. You never know if you'll get the chance again.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:45 pm

In retrospect I’m 50/50 about if this was a good move leaving Borek for Jazz. The equipment is good, schedule once you hold a block is great, travel perks are second to none, and company seems pretty well run. On the down side the pay is too low, and takes way too long to get back to even a semblance of what we should be paid, and the upgrade time is way down the road (read next decade). To be honest, If I had of stayed at Borek, I would have had a much better shot at AC, made 40K more this year, among other stuff...But thses where things I had no way of knowing untill looking back. It really is "best guess" in this industry.

Is this your first captain seat in a turbine? How is the pay, sched, and lifestyle? Are you happy where you are/live? Do you want to go to AC? Can you go from there? Could you be happy as a 10 year copilot on a Dash or RJ making (cough) 60K a year and be happy? These are questions you need to ask yourself. If you want a really in-depth discussion, feel free to PM me.

As a side note, I thought an Airline Job was the end all be all, it's not. it's just another job. if your happy, can have a great lifestyle where your at, and are content not chaseing metal, stay put. Because it truely is all about the lifestyle.

Flightlevels · Post by **Flightlevels** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:00 pm

very true KAG..good post.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:49 pm

What is your situation single/married kids etc... do what is best for you. me I couldn't afford too, with one ex one, new and kids, it just won't work.

skyhigh · Post by **skyhigh** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:21 pm

Right now its about 7-8 years to go left seat out in YYZ or YUL. But if you're a western guy its about 14 yrs in YYC and 17 in YVR. Left seat money is pretty decent if you can wait for those times. However until then its average. Personally its a good gig...but its not for everyone though. Good luck

Handsome B. Wonderful · Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:09 pm

I hear the per diem is pretty decent tho no???

2low · Post by **2low** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:55 am

Ya but that goes to paying off the union dues. Rape.

PeteThePilot · Post by **PeteThePilot** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:36 am

At least go in to it with your eyes open - despite what KAG said, we ALL knew what we were getting in to by going to Jazz. We new the pay and the sched and if we didn't it was our fault.

It really is just another job though and the biggest pro for me was the sched. The pay does suck and I need a second job to pay the bills. If I had stayed where I was I would have made twice as much this year but my kids wouldn't have recognized me when I finally got home.

For what it is worth the company is great, the training is great, the RJ is fun and people are generally happy to see new faces after years of stagnation.

Choose wisely my son.

socrates · Post by **socrates** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:11 am

True the upgrade time is 7-8 year is YUL or YYZ.

However an addition of 20 or more a/c would automatically jump that # up. Two 2 years.

Due to fact that there was no hiring between late 2001 and early 2005.

Squid · Post by **Squid** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:23 am

there won't be 20 a/c

skyhigh · Post by **skyhigh** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:13 am

20 more A/C? Haven't heard that rumor yet.

Nightflight · Post by **Nightflight** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:20 am

Heard they are looking at Q400s as replacement for their older Dashes.

Hyster · Post by **Hyster** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:29 am

Wow KAG your opinion has changed greatly since about a year ago. Did you just have a bad day today. I dont remember anyone ever saying an airline job is the end all or be all of aviation. And about chasing metal, Im sure you had the choice between RJ and Dash.

Jazz is Jazz...you can stay here and make a career or take your good experience to the next step if thats what you want.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:58 am

Hyster wrote:Wow KAG your opinion has changed greatly since about a year ago. Did you just have a bad day today. I dont remember anyone ever saying an airline job is the end all or be all of aviation. And about chasing metal, Im sure you had the choice between RJ and Dash.

Jazz is Jazz...you can stay here and make a career or take your good experience to the next step if thats what you want.

Nope no bad day at all, just starting to realize it's not whom you fly for or what equipment your flying, it's just about being content. Working a job that will afford you the best possible lifestyle regardless of what your situation is, or what stage in life you’re at. By lifestyle I don’t mean raking in tons of money, just the ability to do whatever it is you hold as a high priority. For most it’s raising a family, for some it’s traveling. Whatever it may be.

Also yes I could have taken the RJ or the Dash, I took the RJ, that’s not chasing metal, that’s making a choice. By chasing metal I mean bouncing from job to job in the never ending search for bigger, faster, newer machine.

Finally, I thought an Airline job was the end all be all. It’s not bad don’t get me wrong; it’s just not the coveted job I naively thought it once was. It is just a job, and admittedly a very good one. That being said, I know some pretty happy bomber pilots, northern drivers, and yes, even a few instructors. So again, whatever makes you happy.

Not trying to dump on Jazz here, like I said it has a lot going for it.

Is Jazz still a good gig? Yes it is. Just have a sugar momma on the side…

the original tony · Post by **the original tony** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:21 am

thank you very much for all the responses.
It is, for me atleast, a very tough decision.
Torn between finally making a decent pay cheque to going with a company you CAN retire with. The biggest question is will the present employer be around for all that long, not that there is any trouble now, but this is aviation.............
again, what you choose you live with, maybe they make the decision for me and say F&*(OFF
never know.
many thanks for the info and opinions.

The original and as always, confused Tony

abc xyz · Post by **abc xyz** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:43 am

Well Tony I dont know who you fly for but from my time around the biz airlines like yours will come and go. Jazz has some longevity and will continue to have an ever increasing position in AC's flying. Can you say Embraers. Tough to swallow now but if given the chance things like pension, seniority rights, benefits should be the thing that puts Jazz over the top.

Best of luck

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:27 am

What I did was a Pro/Con list versus Jazz and where I was working. For me, the pros outweighed the cons. I looked at this as a long term venture. In the long run, I would be a lot better off at Jazz than my last employer.

Everthing that has been said in this forum is pretty accurate. The hiring has slowed a bit but I think they will still be hiring for a while to come. All the hiring right now is for attrition.

Good luck with your decision

socrates · Post by **socrates** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:29 pm

Hey Squid 3 years ago if I told you Jazz would be operating 135 by 2006 would you of believed me?

I'm not saying it is gonna happen but with this industry you never know.

Next year we could all be captains at jazz or in the unemployment line. Your guess is as good as mine.

Red1 · Post by **Red1** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:01 am

The way I always looked at is, " Jazz is the best worst case scenario you can have". What I mean by this is Jazz is a good place to work; it gives a good schedule, pension, and perks. For many its the first introduction to airline flying. From Jazz you can go to AC, WJ, anywhere really, or in the end if you wish you can stay at Jazz and have a pretty descent career. The pay is terrible in the beginning, but the experience, lifestyle, and perks can make it up.

Santi · Post by **Santi** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:21 pm

TOT,

All the things these folks are saying is true, but you have to make up your own mind ....

I'd say Red 1 pretty much nailed 'er..

Jazz is the best worst case scenario you can have

I'd also say you still owe me a Trad, KAG

Also yes I could have taken the RJ or the Dash, I took the RJ,

All the best as we wind up this year y'all. Safe skies.

Cheers,

pogeypilot · Post by **pogeypilot** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:31 pm

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:59 am

yes, yes I do.