Military Life

husky · Post by **husky** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:59 pm

I was hoping to get some advice from someone(s) flying in the military.

I'm graduating this year with a BSc, and have taken an interest in the military route. One of the major considerations I have in my mind is that I am married and don't want to ruin that.

Assuming I'm able to get in, what can I expect? I have read everything the DND website has to tell me about the process, and talked to a recruiter who more or less recycled what it says on the website.

What I'm wondering is, how much time can I expect to see my wife in the first few years? How about after a couple years in? Anything else I should consider or have in mind?

Thanks,
I hope I posted this is the right forum...

husky · Post by **husky** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:12 pm

another question:

Would it be prudent to apply now?

I will be waiting another year until my wife finnishes nursing school before I consider joining, but have heard to apply well in advance due to it being a slow process.

chipmunk · Post by **chipmunk** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:24 pm

Do a search for some of the posts by "groundpilot" re: the lifestyle stuff - lots of good info.

husky · Post by **husky** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:52 pm

Lots of good info there.

Another question I'm having trouble finding an answer to:

How long is second language training, and is it necessary if you're bilingual?

D-Fred · Post by **D-Fred** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:03 pm

To tell you the truth, I went and spoke with a recruiter myself as well and as you said it was pretty much a read back of what the website said,, when i finally made my decision was when i went to a major air show,, either go to the one in Toronto or Abbotsford,, one of the major ones in Canada where you are for sure to see the Air Force and speak with the people there.. the actual pilots.. they are more then happy to speak about what they have gone thru for training and what to expect..

obviously i was interested in the fighter scene just like everyone else i can think of but obviously this isnt the easiest job to get and i knew that,, but iw anted to find out just how hard it was..

if you have any questions im sure you could find an Air Force pilot in here who would be more then glad to answer your questions!

cheers.

D-Fred

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:46 pm

You make some very good considerations for a married a dude entering the military. Its definitely good to know what your getting into.

To start things off when you do basic its going to suck. I dont know where you live but chances are its far away from St Jean, QC so your only method of communication is the phone. Tip: buy a cell phone. Its worth it because at least she can call you. Otherwise your stuck with you calling her on the crappy pay phones and it will only worsen her feeling of being abandoned. Anyhow the first 5 weeks or so you are not even allowed to leave the building. You are for all intensive purpose a rat in a cage. After that your allowed out on weekends but still you cant plan on getting a weekend off because if your "bad" and they want to "ground" you for the weekend they can. The girl I was with then actually traveled half way across Canada one weekend to come see me and I wasnt able to because we were confined to barracks. She was at the hotel and I had to tell her to fly home the next morning. I was pissed and am still bitter about the whole thing but anyhow you get the point. After about 10 weeks or so it gets a bit better and after 14 I was out of that dump and onto OJT(on job training). For you, if you have to do second language training then you will have to stay but at least you get block leave and get every weekend off guaranteed.

OJT things will improve dramatically. Generally if your married you will get sent where you want and you can pretty much go anywhere, probably even where you are right now. You will have to leave to go do the survival courses and Primary Flight Training but you will come back afterwards and at least your not in jail. As well some OJTs are a joke and you can be home everyday by noon.

After all the pre-reqs are done and you got your spot at Moose Jaw you will be posted there. You will pretty much have to move your wife there with you. You don't know have to but your going to be there for a long time so most people do, especially if you want jets. There are lots of personal military quarters(PMQs) and for the most part are pretty nice. Your wife can work in Moose Jaw or even commute to Regina so she should have a good shot at getting a job.

After Moose Jaw you will have to wait for your next phase and you can do that there or back on OJT depending on where your wife is.

If you do the multi/helo route you will likely leave your wife behind in Moose Jaw and you will carry onto Portage solo for the course but at least you can go back on weekends(6 hours drive)

After that you will be onto OJT at a location and wait for your OTU. So more 8-4 M-F type lifestyle. You will be solo again off to your OTU (I guess depending on where it is, you could be posted to Trenton where your OTU is) and after that your operational where it widely varies. But the bottom line is you get plenty of vacation a year, good salary, good benefits and most jobs are generally 8-4.

Summary: First its going to suck, SLT may suck as well, OJT can be great, Moose Jaw will be busy, probably going to be solo in Portage unless your going jets, and after that life should settle nicely with a good salary.

Anyhow good luck and don't let them push you around, family first.

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:52 pm

And to add...

In an ideal world I would recommend getting basic done prior to her finishing school. At least she will be busy and out of your hair because you will be plenty busy with all sorts of crap in St Jean. With that done you can at least plan on moving somewhere together.

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:23 pm

Anyhow the first 5 weeks or so you are not even allowed to leave the building. You are for all intensive purpose a rat in a cage. After that your allowed out on weekends but still you cant plan on getting a weekend off because if your "bad" and they want to "ground" you for the weekend they can.

It's like being 16 years-old all over again, huh?

You're grounded, Mister!

Pyleosnow · Post by **Pyleosnow** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:55 am

Ground Pilot sums it up pretty well. Apparently there may be changes coming to the language training meaning you might not be doing it. As far as when to apply do it now. It took me 7 mos from the time i started until i got my offer and another 5 before I was in beautiful St Jean. If an offer comes to soon you can always defer. I dont know what plan you are planning to enter on but last I heard DEO and CEOTP have been closed to pilots until at least April 07 due to a big backlog.

I currently work with a lot of pilots from pretty much every community out there. For the most part they are happily married, at least they act like it.

Any questions just holla.

Cheers

husky · Post by **husky** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:00 am

Well I would be DEO. I heard they had closed entry to CEOTP, but DEO too? That would mean they are only trying to fill the spaces for ROTP then?

Pyleosnow · Post by **Pyleosnow** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:29 pm

from what i heard it is deo as well, i may be wrong, it has happened, not very often though

Either way you should just start the process because it is a long one.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:08 pm

I just talked to CFRC Van yesterday... All pilot offers have gone out til the next fiscal year's #s come in. The only way you're getting on now is if someone that has a slot drops off for some reason. Even if you're 'on the list" you're still going to wait for an offer.

Bloody red tape

Downtown · Post by **Downtown** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:50 pm

You should check out this string:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... =vacancies

I had contributed the below message to this string a while back. I thought of it again when I started reading the "military life" string.

Downtown

Oh, and you do realize that even if you "get in" as a pilot, it is still entirely possible to wash out of the training program part way through.
[quote]

This happens more often than not. One group of approximately 10 - 15 applicants were recruited after passing all the aircrew selection screanings. All of them were eventually cut before obtaining wings. Were they all dumb? I don't think so.

I can think of many very quick learners who were washed out of military pilot training in Moose Jaw, Portage La Prairie, Cold Lake... etc. The airforce has its mold and they don't hesitate to cut you if you don't fit it.

The military fills many openings with washouts because these members become addicted to a steady paycheque, job security, the military lifestyle and the social camaraderie (AKA drinking buddies).

It's almost as if free pilot training is a carrot that the military waves in front of potential recruits to get them in the door. They do this knowing full well there is a good chance they'll wash out and change military careers in time. Most military navigators are wash-out pilots.

Here's a news flash for you all. Not everyone in the airforce can be a pilot. But its a hell of a recruitment tool! Myself, I decided to take my free $1,000,000 of flight training, plus severence pay, return of pension contributions, cash termination allowance, etc.. etc.. and make a go of flying civi side. Nothing else interested me in the military.

Downtown

Downtown · Post by **Downtown** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:59 pm

My wife also made the comment that the military lifestyle is hard on pilot spouses too. She suggested that your wife might want to talk to some military pilot wives to get the gouge on what it's like before you both committed to the CF.

It's not all bad and it's not all good, but it certainly does present some challenges for spouses unlike most other careers. It's not for everyone is all I'm saying. But some spouses really enjoy it. Especially if they grew up on a base themselves. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Downtown

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:41 pm

Since I have joined the pass rate is quite high. Not saying everyone passes but almost all my buddies from basic got their wings. Of the ones who didn't: a couple were medical related, a couple quit, and a few failed. They need pilots and if you have any ability they will do everything they can to get you through. I don't quite understand where you got that $1,000,000 figure but if they spent that much on you they would have done everything they could to get you through. Phase I is about $50K, phase II in the $300K area and it goes up from there.

You can quit at anytime so there is no obligation if it doesn't work out.

Pyleosnow · Post by **Pyleosnow** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:13 pm

Right now attrition rate in primary flight training is approx 20%, basic flight training (moosejaw) is 10% Those numbers include people withdrawing for various reasons as well as failure.

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:48 pm

From my PFT course one person failed but trust me...that person was a complete idiot an and NO ONE failed from my phase II course. On the PFT course prior to mine NO ONE failed either. I dont trust stats.

Downtown · Post by **Downtown** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:53 pm

I'm glad to hear things have obviously changed since I got out in 2003. I remember the attrition rates were quite high in Portage, Moose Jaw and at 410 Sqn Cold Lake. There were a lot of bitter CT'd pilots.

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:25 pm

They will go out of their way for you if you have a good attitude. At least if things don't work out after wings you get the option to switch airframes.

Military Life

Military Life

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How it is for the military wives

Military Life