Need your advice

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:56 pm

I'm currently sitting at 120 hours with a night rating. Should I do a multi-IFR rating or spend the money getting a float rating and building time on floats? Which route would give me the best chance at that elusive first job? Thank you in advance.

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:12 pm

I don't know dude! Your MIFR won't really do much because you won't get a lot of chances to fly. Even if you get your Class 4, you won't be teaching that stuff for a while. I know one guy who did his CPL, then got a Float Rating, instead of his IFR ticket. Sure enough after 3 years as an instructor, he saved some cash (don't know how) and got his IFR. Now he's got over 1600 hours with no IFR experience, and only a few hours on floats because nobody hired him 3 years ago. Your call.

T01

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:42 pm

T-1 Is correct, screw the IFR screw the floats, get an instructor rating, if you want a job.

Or don't get any of them, go work the ramp and finish your flying before you get the upgrade..

N2 · Post by N2 » Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:12 am

I'd just like to know where all the money is coming from for these people to take flight training these days. $91.00 per hour for a clapped out 152 plus $45.00 per hour for a freshly minted class 4 instructor! YIKES!

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:37 am

N2 wrote:I'd just like to know where all the money is coming from...

Two jobs 7 days a week that's how, I know I'm a fool but what the hell. My problem is that I don't think I would make a very good instructor, I don't deal well with people trying to kill me. I don't have any problem moving to some shit hole for a job, I just don't know what additional skills I would need besides 200 hours in a 172 to even have a remote chance at a job. I figured no one is going to hire you to fly MIFR with 200 hours but there is a lot of talk about it showing you are serious about flying. What you think?

DiscoDashSeven · Post by **DiscoDashSeven** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:03 pm

N2 wrote:$91.00 per hour for a clapped out 152 plus $45.00 per hour for a freshly minted class 4 instructor! YIKES!

He (or she) probably only gets about $15-20 of that! (BEFORE taxes)

N2 · Post by N2 » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:26 am

DD7 the place I was thinking about the guys only see $14.00 of that.

N2 · Post by N2 » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:27 am

Double post sorry!

DiscoDashSeven · Post by **DiscoDashSeven** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:50 am

When I started I made $15/hr but when I upgraded to a class 3 I got "the big promotion" and made $16/hr. Schools take advantage of instructors. Freelancing is the way to go. The student pays less and the instructor gets more.

3Green · Post by **3Green** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:01 am

And with Freelancing you get some pretty useful tax benefits. It's already been discussed, but you can write off a portion of your car, clothing, food, etc. Much, much better way to get through instructing.

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:25 am

How does Freelancing work? What a/c do you use? What about TC stupid requirements on FTU's?

LT · Post by LT » Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:30 am

They/You "use" the students aircraft.

DiscoDashSeven · Post by **DiscoDashSeven** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:15 pm

You can freelance an IFR Rating on CLUB aircraft. Just don't let them know what you're doing.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:26 pm

DiscoDashSeven wrote:You can freelance an IFR Rating on CLUB aircraft. Just don't let them know what you're doing.

Would the student need to be the renter, or the "instructor"

?

DiscoDashSeven · Post by **DiscoDashSeven** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:31 pm

Doesn't matter but typically I'd say it'd be the student. By that point they at least have a PPL and can rent a plane from any club.

permateacher · Post by **permateacher** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:25 am

Het Dude,

To get a flying job directly after flight school, the only way to do it in my opinion is to get an instructor rating and work for a flight school. If you want to carry on in that for a while you can get into the freelance thing once you get your upgrade to a class three. Untill then you need supervision.

Having a float rating or multi ifr won't get you much at 200 hrs unless you are known to someone. Insurance varies from place to place, but in truth a 200 hr guy can get on to a right seat light piston or turbine twin no problem with 200 hrs only if he or she has worked the ramp. No one is going to hire a low timer directly into a flying position these days just on the licence alone, but the same operator would be happy to put you in a plane once they know you.

In short, if you want to fast track to an ifr flying job, never mind the instructing and work the ramp for a company with a lot of differen types of aircraft. If you want to get paid for flying right after your rating, make arrangements to do an instructor rating at a place that hires grads, then work like hell to drum up your own business.

I think the best way to go is a little of both, where you get the class 4, then find a ramp job. Work the ramp untill you get to know the operators on the field, and then get them to hire you to instruct part time. You get the flying bug taken care of... yet are building valuable experience and seniority on the ramp (with lots of pic to boot).

In closing, I think the only way to get hired in this industry as a low timer is if people like you. You can have all the accolades you want, but if you don't have time then all you can hope for is to put yourself in a position where they can get to know you (like on the ramp).

I did the flying instructor thing, then the ramp thing, now the flying thing, so contrary to my handle I did get out of the racket a while ago.

Good luck and take care,

PT

recon · Post by **recon** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:30 pm

Hey Permateacher that is some good advice and makes me feel better about getting into the flying industry. Im just finishing up my private license now and this fall start a 2 year aviation program and will graduate with my multi ifr. I am 17 years old and got a summer job working the ramp at the place I do all my training. I think I am on the right path so far!

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:59 am

Hey permateacher, thanks for the great info. I think I'm going to go with the ramp route. Unfortunately I'll have to wait until I have my CPL to move and look for a ramp job, don't know of any ops around Vancouver that hire of the ramp.

permateacher wrote:Het Dude,

but in truth a 200 hr guy can get on to a right seat light piston or turbine twin no problem with 200 hrs only if he or she has worked the ramp. PT

So this is my dilemma... should I work MIFR into my CPL, in case I get called up from the ramp to the right seat or just wait until they need me then do my MIFR?

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:58 pm

You need to think about what type of flying you want to do, and go after that. If you want to fly floats for a career then get the float rating, if you want to get in to the IFR flying then go get the multi-IFR. Infact, if you go the ramp route you probably have a better chance with the MIFR, than the floats. It seems like all the operates want high float hrs right now, and there seems to be very few that will give you a float job even after a year or two on the ramp.

I think the best advice is to go after the type of flying you want to do. No matter what it is, if you are willing to make the effort and commitment you will get there. Whatever you do, DON'T sit on your ass down south sending out resumes. If you do your chance of getting the first job are almost zero.

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