Instructor rating or not??

airwalk00 · Post by **airwalk00** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:15 am

I am currently in a 100hr + stage of my training, and I am torn between the instructor route or the "go up north and get a job" route.
I would love to teach other people how to fly, read alot of post with the good and bad about instructing, so I am aware of that. On the other hand I think going up north and getting a job there would be some amazing flying experience and teach very valuable skills as well. My eventual goal down the road is to fly for an airline.
I'd love to hear from pilots that have done either way, and if there;'s one way thats better than the other?

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:17 am

Good thing I became an instructor, I would hate to have to get a "Job"

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:26 pm

You can instruct all you want you most likely won't get on Air Canada with only Instructing time...

I would love to teach other people how to fly

Thats nice, you'd like to teach.... Big difference between wanting to teach and being able to teach....

You won't get a flying job up north either, you'll probably ramp it for a short period of time....

100 hrs to go, music is ploaying, others are saying it's slowing down, whatever, so finish your cpl as fast as you can.....

Send your resume up north, if you don't get any bites, start taking an instructor course, keep applying and quit the instructor course if you get a job in the mean time.... And if you don't well you'll probably have a job after your instructor rating.....

beechy · Post by **beechy** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:48 pm

instructing is ok.

Its a good way to build PIC time, and no matter what people say tat beats out FO time......it helps get your atp's which alot of people want.....

now that isnt to say you should teach just for the time, you should have interest in teaching too.....its not easy to sit in the circuit for 5-6 hours one day and stay interested. Despite what some people say it takes a different kind of "nerves"........nothing wrong with it ....nothing perfect with it.......just like everything....nothing is absolute, do whats best for you.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:53 pm

Too bad we can't weed out the "instructing's Okay" types in favor of the "I WANT to instruct" types. We'd get INSTRUCTORS rather than "time builders"!
If you just want to "build time", do your students a service....go somewhere else to build time. If you think aviation is about "flying for an airline" there are other ways to get there than using students as a stepping stone. And that, and the fact that instructing pays the absolute shits, is the whole problem with aviation at the "grass roots" level.

airwalk00 · Post by **airwalk00** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:48 am

Doc:

I knew I would get that response when I threw in the fact that the airlines might be a future goal down the road....
The fact is, I started flying because I loved it, love it everytime I go up there, its fun and it would be the best job in the world. Why is it that everytime the word "instructing" and "airline" appear in the same sentence people think that guy just wants to build time to get to the airline?
Agreed, even at the club I do my training at there;s guys that are there just for a few months to build a little bit of time to move up a step. Do I think its right? NO! I can tell you though that the instructors that are there because they love what they do, they seem that have more students, and not nearly as many complaints about them.
Anyway, at the same time I do understand what you are saying about some instructors just wanting to build time in order to get on with an airline.......in my opinion the most experience pilots should be doing the instructing (retired pilots with thousands of hours) but unfortunatly thats not the way it is.
Back to my question, provided someone is just as passionate about teaching and flying, which would be more valuable as in gaining better flying skills, instructing or flying up north?

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:00 am

99% of instructors get their ratings to build time. It's a fact of life. Sure, there is that 1% of "mother theresa's" that are there to make the world a better place, but they are not exactly in the majority.

As long as you do a good job while you're there, no one can fault you. Same goes for the next 8 flying jobs you're going to have before you get on with Air Canada and start making that big big $24k/year in your first year, living in yyz or yvr

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:55 pm

" in my opinion the most experience pilots should be doing the instructing (retired pilots with thousands of hours) but unfortunatly thats not the way it is."

Yeh, that would really throw a wrench into the gears with some of the TC goons.

Experienced pilots would punch their lights out instead of kiss their asses through fear.

Krashman · Post by **Krashman** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:49 pm

Well if you want to instruct then do it... but I agree with a few of the other posts, if you want to eventually fly operationally you will need to make sure that you have your multi-IFR.

I enjoy instructing and like teaching but I know I don't want to do it forever. I'm still as professional as I can be and try to pass on as much knowledge as I know.

These days with the job market movement there have been alot of instructing jobs become available.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:24 pm

airwalk00...did I hit a nerve? If you're doing it JUST to build time, it should have....hit a nerve, that is. If you're wondering which job will make you a better pilot? Flying up north will make you a better pilot...by far....but, then you can come back and instruct, and maybe have a clue what you're doing.

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:12 pm

99% of instructors get their ratings to build time. It's a fact of life. Sure, there is that 1% of "mother theresa's" that are there to make the world a better place, but they are not exactly in the majority.

As long as you do a good job while you're there, no one can fault you. Same goes for the next 8 flying jobs you're going to have before you get on with Air Canada and start making that big big $24k/year in your first year, living in yyz or yvr Wink

I think Satan may need his long underwear today, because I'm going to go with H on this one. Nothing wrong with doing Instructing to build time, just do a good job of it.
As for your question, which is better? 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other. With instructing you will build PIC experience, and despite what people say you'll be doing a lot more than circuits. Also, with instructing you stand a chance of getting multi PIC a bit faster (provided you are not a screw up). Up North you'll learn a good deal of stuff also. I'll leave the guys that went that route to fill in the details. Neither route is going to put you directly with a/c. They will both put you in a position to move to a small charter. Note that I said position. What will ultimately get you in the door is networking and timing. If you know the right person at the right time, you're in. So start working on your networking now.

airwalk00 · Post by **airwalk00** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:13 am

Thanks mcrit

The famous saying: Its not what you know, its WHO you know!

And of course, I'm not expecting an airline job right away, not even close, years and years down the road.
You get alot of PIC time as an instructor, which is nice to have I guess, but wouldn;t the best and most valuable experience be way up north, landing on gravel runways somewhere in the bush? Maybe I;m looking at it wrong, I'm just a young guy starting out.....any input from someone that has worked up north would be great too!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:25 am

" but wouldn;t the best and most valuable experience be way up north, landing on gravel runways somewhere in the bush? "

Yes.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:38 am

Specialization is for insects, not pilots. The pilot with the broadest experience is often the best.

Frankly, large airplanes are so easy to fly, I'm not sure it matters much, but ... airlines aren't looking for . Yeager. They're looking for robots.

You wanna fly a modern large aircraft, a background in computers is probably more helpful than a background in floats or gravel.

JW · Post by JW » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:59 pm

If you just want to "build time", do your students a service....go somewhere else to build time.

I think it is possible to build time and be a good instructor. The thing you have to remember as an instructor is how much it cost you to get your ppl cpl and whatever else you have. Then think about when you were a student, and try to treat your student with respect. Don't take them to the cleaners on dual time, because you wouldn't have wanted that.

If you work at a busy school and are a good instructor you will build time as a consequence of that. There is nothing wrong with that. Not every instructor has to want to do it as a life long career to be a good instructor.

Its been said a million times and I'm sure it will be said a million more, but if you want an instructor to stick around you have to pay them at least a wage that will make it possible to live. When I was instructing I couldn't afford anything, it wasn't a matter of going in debt every month; it was a matter of how much I was going to be in debt that month. Living life in the red was the reality of that job. If I could have made at least enough money to live I probably would have done it longer, I would have gained more and more teaching experience and it would have benefited my students more. It’s really too bad that this is truly not possible.

JW

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:22 pm

" but if you want an instructor to stick around you have to pay them at least a wage that will make it possible to live. "

The chicken and the egg problem comes into play with instructor pay.

The pay is based on what they know.

If the pay scale was increased say by a factor of four, how many class 4/3//2/1 instructors would be hired based on the qualification standards that exist in flight training now?

The pay is low because the industry knows low time pilots will work for peanuts.

JW · Post by JW » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:47 pm

You're %100 right cat, but how can it change? And what can anyone do to change it?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:24 pm

" You're %100 right cat, but how can it change? And what can anyone do to change it "

Sadly your fuc.ed, there is no way it will change in your career time frame, there is no incentive for either the industry ( Read flight schools ) or the regulator to change anything.

I feel as discouraged as you do, remember I went through the journey myself.

Sure Shot · Post by **Sure Shot** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:01 am

airwalk00 wrote:The famous saying: Its not what you know, its WHO you know!

i wish it was only that. its not who you know, its who you blow.

youngflier · Post by **youngflier** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:56 pm

make sure your patient if you want to be a flight instructor.. flying up north is better in my oppinion more exposure to harsh weather and thereofre better experience