Belly landing 101

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:38 am

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4819d4f73d

Id say Nice job other than leaving the master switch on.

linecrew · Post by **linecrew** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:10 am

He even tweaked the starter on #1 after shutting it down to prevent the prop form dragging.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:36 am

Very smart pilot.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:23 am

very nicely done.

Lost in Saigon · Post by **Lost in Saigon** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:59 am

I wonder if he actually hit the starter on the left engine.

A feathered prop still has some air resistance and it might have just "ticked over" by itself.

grounded · Post by **grounded** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:05 am

Nice work, a little left of centerline though.

Glad to see no injuries, except for the belly. A lot of the runways in the the US have grooves cut into the asphalt for water drainage, and these act as a great big file when you gear up, and chew the hell out of the belly. Hope that wasn't one of them.

C-GPFG · Post by **C-GPFG** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:52 am

. wrote: Id say Nice job other than leaving the master switch on.

He did a nice job. About the master..at least he noticed and shut it off. I've watched many people tiedown their plane, walk around it a few times, even move the prop to put the cowl plugs in, all while the beacon is flashing away.

And I'm thinking along the lines as Saigon. The left prop moved into the same position as the right.

2low · Post by **2low** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:26 am

Didn't end so nicely for Big Al at Montair a couple of years ago. Dumbass.

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:01 pm

whats the Big Al story?

Maybe the more we talk about idiots screwing up, the more aware we will be of the dangers of looking like a moron and increased insurance costs

Jimmy Mack · Post by **Jimmy Mack** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:02 pm

Looks to me like they still hit the props on the ground, you can see when it comes down on the nose they move a little so i'd imagine they're both pooched now. Plus the owner looks a little nonplussed when he's inspecting them.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:30 pm

Did anyone notice he over controlled with the elevators on the round out and hold off?

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:23 pm

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:00 pm

Well scooter seeing as you are such a smart ass do you think overcontrolling is the way to make a smooth landing?

And for your information if I were doing a precautionary landing with a gear problem you can bet your ass I would not over control with elevators for the simple reason it sets up a pitch oscillation.

Are you one of those nervous over controllers who is satisfied with being mediocre at best in your flying?

" Cat Driver, you're my hero! "

Sure, I can just imagine I am.

MUSKEG · Post by **MUSKEG** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:54 pm

Jeez Cat just a little harsh don't you think. At low airspeed he maybe needed that much to get what he wanted. Everybodys a critic when they are sitting in a chair. And whats with the centerline comment. Like he didn't have enough going on with a late feather and all. Why don't we give credit where credit is due, but then we are all better pilots than the next guy so why isn't our way the best way. Been there done that. Yup I also was off centerline by 10 feet. Shame on me.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:30 pm

" Jeez Cat just a little harsh don't you think. "

Not at all Muskeg, I was only commenting on the fact that he overcontrolled on elevator during he final phase of the landing.

" At low airspeed he maybe needed that much to get what he wanted. "

Why would he be using low airspeed to try and land as softly as possible with a hung up gear? The approach and landing in a situation such as this should be made as close to the best handling airspeed as possible and for best results only smooth control movements should be made for the most soft touch down.

Everybodys a critic when they are sitting in a chair.

Yes, that is eactly why we post here to discuss flying, I make my comments based on my thoughts regarding accurate smooth flying, which is exactly how I earn my living, teaching how to do it and the importance of doing it every time so when you have to land smooth you can.

Maybe some of you feel I am to much of a critic about these things and that is A.O.K. we all have out own standards when it comes to how to fly.....mine may be a little to demanding but what the hell thats better than having standards that are to slack.

MUSKEG · Post by **MUSKEG** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:25 pm

CD Just watched it again and I noticed a few other things like it appears the flaps are up which means he knew he would damage them if they were down. It also appears (remember appears) he is carrying more speed than normal flaps landing which might shed light. Yes he seems to overcontrol but I bet he doesn't have 10 % of the experience you or some others here have. Thus faster A/S and same control inputs that he is conditioned to = some pitching which by the way he got under control. All and all not bad.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:43 pm

" Yes he seems to overcontrol but I bet he doesn't have 10 % of the experience you or some others here have. Thus faster A/S and same control inputs that he is conditioned to = some pitching which by the way he got under control. All and all not bad. "

Oh the other hand, what exactly is the difference between a landing with a hungup gear and a landing with the gear down and locked?

The speed is difficult to judge accurately in a TV film made from a helicopter, however it seems to be about right speed wise, where he got a little out of the groove seems to be flare height anticipation and slightly to high, note the pitch occilations "feeling" for the runway, this can be attributed to stress worried about how much damage may be done....but he did have lots of time to think abot it as evident from the news coverage, the helicopter had time to get there to film it.

All in all he did a good job, my comments were only meant to point out where it could have been a bit smoother . By the time one gets to flying a twin your flare height judgement and general airplane handling skills should be pretty well ingrained.

And of course these are only my thoughts on this made to get people to study what it looks like and what could have been better or worse.

It is possible he was used to landing using power and was unsure of how to land without power??

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:21 am

Ok lets see if we can discuss whether one should feather the props or leave them running. I have heard differant takes on this, Feather and save the engine, but because of the prop strike you need to overhull the engine anyways. Now if you leave the engine running if something happens you can go around and make another attempt.

To shutdown or not to shut down that is the question?

Lurch

Ralliart · Post by **Ralliart** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:33 am

Great landing.........what more could you ask for?

Most likely a recreational flyer on the lower scale of overall experience..............landed on the runway, stayed on the runway, vacated the aircraft very quickly, no fire, no injuries.......basically just an insurance claim!

Well done

TG · Post by TG » Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:52 am

Lurch wrote:Ok lets see if we can discuss whether one should feather the props or leave them running. I have heard differant takes on this, Feather and save the engine, but because of the prop strike you need to overhull the engine anyways. Now if you leave the engine running if something happens you can go around and make another attempt.

To shutdown or not to shut down that is the question?

Lurch

They did a nice job but I'm pretty sure both of them were dealing with it.
I'm not superman enought to do it single pilot. Especially trying to play with the starter switch during the flair.
I guess it will depend on the aircraft type, runway lengh, personnal flying experiences, etc...

On a side note, one good thing about the old Beech 18:
You could belly it up and still use differential brakes on it during the "slide" by the way they built the gear and how it would comes up (with the main wheels staying partially outside)

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:53 am

Yeah i noticed that too cat. Fiddling with stuff in the flare is not a good idea, especially when you are dealing with a gear problem. Nor is leaving the flaps up necessarily going to save you money. Remember that BE10 in California with buddy leaving the flaps up to reduce damage? Almost ran off the end.

It's all fine and good to try to save money but if you end up writing off the airplane doing so you don't save any money.

flyincanuck · Post by **flyincanuck** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:06 pm

Why is the door open? My old baron manual says nothing about opening the door on a gear-up landing.

The door is part of the structural integrity of the aircraft (and for every a/c which has a "rounded" or "curved" door). The 172 has a flat door - so it's not an issue.

Me thinks this is a Cessna driver with a lot of $ to upgrade.

Doesn't look like he engaged the starter either - it would have snapped the prop over faster.

Bottom line is that they walked away. Good stuff...

edit: as for the curved door concept....think of an egg.

Belly landing 101

Belly landing 101

Re: Belly landing 101