I haven't been on the site here for a while and I couldn't help but notice how many float operators there are looking for experienced drivers.
For the most part in the aviation industry, WE are our worst enemies, working for peanuts chasing that golden carrot. Well thank God I'm a float driver.
Three words for you all: supply and demand
There's never been a better time to demand a raise boyz and girlz!
A DHC-3T driver flying passengers in civilization, 5 on, 2 off, should be making $400 a day.
You DHC-3T camp guys living in the middle of nowhere, flying all the fricken time haulin' tons of freight should be asking for $10,000 a month, plus room and board, and at least one day off a week...you're worth it!
Beaver guys in civilization should be making at least $300 a day.
Beaver guys in the bush, minimum $400 a day, plus room and board.
Don't talk yourselves out of it, you're worth it!
Let's not be our own worst enemies...there aren't that many experienced float drivers left.
And after all, if we do decide to go for that shiny carrot, we're going to need a nest egg to carry us through our first couple of multi-IFR years...
Now is the time for float drivers to ask for a raise!
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
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glorifiedtaxidriver
- Rank 3
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:03 pm
"And after all, if we do decide to go for that shiny carrot, we're going to need a nest egg to carry us through our first couple of multi-IFR years..."
Exactly my position. 5000 hrs plus float time with turbine experience, making 50-60K. With no ifr or multi time, hardly anyone will even take me right seat, and I'll have to swallow a 30k pay cut. Would a company really rather have a 500 hr pilot with 200 multi over the experience of a 5000 hr driver? The logic baffles me.
Exactly my position. 5000 hrs plus float time with turbine experience, making 50-60K. With no ifr or multi time, hardly anyone will even take me right seat, and I'll have to swallow a 30k pay cut. Would a company really rather have a 500 hr pilot with 200 multi over the experience of a 5000 hr driver? The logic baffles me.
Yup, experienced float guys are going to be a real shortage this spring!
Hopefully the operators will dish out some coin, but with the way the tourist industry is, there may be the odd beaver or 185 parked this season, cause there is not enough business to keep her busy. And as cheap as most tourist camp owners are.......lets just hope the we can get a raise!
glorifiedtaxidriver: pay cut, yes to move into the IFR world, but a fellow with your time should be into a capt. seat in no time, getting the same sort of coin. Maybe you are looking in the wrong part of the country? Come to YQT.
good luck! The small sked IFR part of the industry is starting to become short guys with some experience too it seems.
Hopefully the operators will dish out some coin, but with the way the tourist industry is, there may be the odd beaver or 185 parked this season, cause there is not enough business to keep her busy. And as cheap as most tourist camp owners are.......lets just hope the we can get a raise!
glorifiedtaxidriver: pay cut, yes to move into the IFR world, but a fellow with your time should be into a capt. seat in no time, getting the same sort of coin. Maybe you are looking in the wrong part of the country? Come to YQT.
good luck! The small sked IFR part of the industry is starting to become short guys with some experience too it seems.
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shimmydampner
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1764
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:59 pm
And then a nest egg for your first couple of regional flying years and then a nest egg for your first couple of major airline years and then a nest egg for your furlough...And after all, if we do decide to go for that shiny carrot, we're going to need a nest egg to carry us through our first couple of multi-IFR years...
Good to hear your input '180', but like '185guy' said the industry is not exactly flourishing and with the new passport requirements things aren't going to be any better this year. The last two bush ops I worked for each had a Cessna layed up for lack of business. I think $400/day to drive a -2 in the bush is a bit steep, half of that I would consider decent.
I was just laughing out loud Pika...unfortunately it's funny because it's true.
C'mon Zero, an experienced DHC-2 driver with 1000 hours on floats is worth more than $200 a day...my carpenter roomate won't get out of bed for $40 bucks an hour...just because a couple of smaller operators have a 180 or 185 sitting in the hangar doesn't cheapen your experience.
And the whole reason I started this thread was because I was amazed how many float operators there were looking for guys with time under their belt.
Let's not sell ourselves short! $300 a day minimum Zero.
C'mon Zero, an experienced DHC-2 driver with 1000 hours on floats is worth more than $200 a day...my carpenter roomate won't get out of bed for $40 bucks an hour...just because a couple of smaller operators have a 180 or 185 sitting in the hangar doesn't cheapen your experience.
And the whole reason I started this thread was because I was amazed how many float operators there were looking for guys with time under their belt.
Let's not sell ourselves short! $300 a day minimum Zero.
Come on now. I know pilots have a bit of an ego issue. But when your flying a Beaver. You have to remember your flying a 4 to 6 seat single engine piston airplane. It rents by the mile and chugs along at 100mph.
I've got more bad news. There is no shortage of Cessna pilots hoping to fly a Beaver this season. So before you guys with "1000hrs on a Beaver" go dropping your demands on "Jimmy's fly in Fishing Camp" Just remember he's got a pile of about fifty resumes from guys who are willing to work flying Beaver for $3000 to $4000 a month.
1000hrs on a Beaver, shit that's when I was at my worst. Thought I know it all, but actually knew F-All. Careful out there boys. I would hate to see you price yourselves outta work and end up working at Walmart over the summer.
I've got more bad news. There is no shortage of Cessna pilots hoping to fly a Beaver this season. So before you guys with "1000hrs on a Beaver" go dropping your demands on "Jimmy's fly in Fishing Camp" Just remember he's got a pile of about fifty resumes from guys who are willing to work flying Beaver for $3000 to $4000 a month.
1000hrs on a Beaver, shit that's when I was at my worst. Thought I know it all, but actually knew F-All. Careful out there boys. I would hate to see you price yourselves outta work and end up working at Walmart over the summer.
Oh go for it! Don't tell me none of you negotiate for your salaries? Just take what they offer? You are your own worst enemy. Don't let anyone talk you out of it.
What a lot of hooey.
An experienced guy won't break anything and will get in and out when a new guy won't. Peace of mind - costs money. Gotta make it in the summer - you get laid off in the Fall, right?
What a lot of hooey.
An experienced guy won't break anything and will get in and out when a new guy won't. Peace of mind - costs money. Gotta make it in the summer - you get laid off in the Fall, right?
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
For a guy working 6 days a week making 200 clams/day, my quick calculations figure he's making $60k/year...if he was working year round of course. Not bad coin in my books...an above average salary which one could live on comfortably and not feel greedy. I think asking double that from a small mom and pop operation is rediculous.
I've also done some carpenting in the past and don't recall meeting even a Journeyman making wages like $40/hr which works out to $80k/year...I don't know where you get your numbers but they seem a tad high...oil patch perhaps??
I've also done some carpenting in the past and don't recall meeting even a Journeyman making wages like $40/hr which works out to $80k/year...I don't know where you get your numbers but they seem a tad high...oil patch perhaps??
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Idriveplane
- Rank 6
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:54 am
- Location: Tree tops
[quote="zero"]For a guy working 6 days a week making 200 clams/day, my quick calculations figure he's making $60k/year...if he was working year round of course. Not bad coin in my books...an above average salary which one could live on comfortably and not feel greedy. I think asking double that from a small mom and pop operation is rediculous.
Zero, why should a person have to work 6 days a week all year long to make a wage that is livable? Most industries got rid of the 6 day a week thing many years ago because people need to have a life. You should work to live, not live to work... This is one of the attitudes that has held our industry back for so long...
Zero, why should a person have to work 6 days a week all year long to make a wage that is livable? Most industries got rid of the 6 day a week thing many years ago because people need to have a life. You should work to live, not live to work... This is one of the attitudes that has held our industry back for so long...
All these job postings arrived since January 18th.
DHC 3T PILOT (Nakina Air Service)
DHC - 2 Pilot (Pickerel Arm Camp )
Pilot (Wolverine Air)
pilot (WAMAIR)
Float Pilots (Destination Air - Thailand)
Float Plane Pilot (Air Cab)
Pilot (Sandy Lake Seaplane Service )
Pilots Needed:Cessna 185, DHC-2, DHC-3 Floats (Lac La Croi
C206 Amphib Pilot (Cameron Air Service)
Beaver Float Pilot (West Coast Air Ltd)
DHC-2 Beaver Pilot (KaBeeLo Airways, Ltd.)
C-180 Pilot (KaBeeLo Lodge, Ltd.)
Otter Pilot (Northwest Flying Inc.)
Zero, Philly, we've PM'd each other about road trips, hot spots, salaries etc. in the past. In the last 3 or 4 years, do you remember ever seeing this many people looking for experienced drivers? And Philly, I just threw out the 1000 hours on floats number because that seems to be a nice round number for Beaver drivers and insurance companies. You know most companies want way more time than that to fly a turbine.
So if you have the time, and you've stuck it out in the float side of things rather than chase the shiny carrot, and if you only have 5 or 6 months to earn a years worth of pesos...then why sell yourself short.
Zero, the reason truck drivers, engineers and rough necks up in Fort McMurray are earning 6 figures is the same reason why float drivers should be asking for a raise this year...supply and demand!
It'll be interesting to see how many more float jobs start showing up on this board in Feb, Mar and April.
DHC 3T PILOT (Nakina Air Service)
DHC - 2 Pilot (Pickerel Arm Camp )
Pilot (Wolverine Air)
pilot (WAMAIR)
Float Pilots (Destination Air - Thailand)
Float Plane Pilot (Air Cab)
Pilot (Sandy Lake Seaplane Service )
Pilots Needed:Cessna 185, DHC-2, DHC-3 Floats (Lac La Croi
C206 Amphib Pilot (Cameron Air Service)
Beaver Float Pilot (West Coast Air Ltd)
DHC-2 Beaver Pilot (KaBeeLo Airways, Ltd.)
C-180 Pilot (KaBeeLo Lodge, Ltd.)
Otter Pilot (Northwest Flying Inc.)
Zero, Philly, we've PM'd each other about road trips, hot spots, salaries etc. in the past. In the last 3 or 4 years, do you remember ever seeing this many people looking for experienced drivers? And Philly, I just threw out the 1000 hours on floats number because that seems to be a nice round number for Beaver drivers and insurance companies. You know most companies want way more time than that to fly a turbine.
So if you have the time, and you've stuck it out in the float side of things rather than chase the shiny carrot, and if you only have 5 or 6 months to earn a years worth of pesos...then why sell yourself short.
Zero, the reason truck drivers, engineers and rough necks up in Fort McMurray are earning 6 figures is the same reason why float drivers should be asking for a raise this year...supply and demand!
It'll be interesting to see how many more float jobs start showing up on this board in Feb, Mar and April.
twotter: In a camp situation, I've found in my limited experience, one day off a week is average and making $5k/month works out to $60k/year...of course you wouldn't do it year round, you've taken it out of context.
180: Totally in agreement with the amount of early ads this year, very encouraging, feels good to have the ball in our court.
idriveplane: You should expect $2500-$3000/month this year...180 may tell you higher.
180: Totally in agreement with the amount of early ads this year, very encouraging, feels good to have the ball in our court.
idriveplane: You should expect $2500-$3000/month this year...180 may tell you higher.
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glorifiedtaxidriver
- Rank 3
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:03 pm
I'm still young, I can't do the same thing from now till the day I retire. After almost ten years flying floats, I hardly ever find myself being challenged any more - except of course for those really shitty weather days. I don't think I 've actually learned anything new in the past few years anyway, and I can feel my brain muscle is getting weak. So yes, I know I'll take a pay cut, but for my own satisfaction, I need to challenge myself some more and learn something new.Doc wrote:Hey Glorified....if you can make 50-60K flying floats, why would you want to fly IFR?? Always wondered that.
Maybe I am looking at this a little differently. I've been on the Bush side of aviation for close to 15 years now. I've flown floats in 5 provinces and a couple of Territories. I got my licence at a private flying school. Where flight instructors lived in there cars. I've seen flight instructors punch it out over right seat time in an Aztec. I lived in a 3 bedroom trailer with 12 Bearskin BE-99 pilots who were getting paid half what I was to fly a C-180. I've seen laid off airline pilots waiting on tables while sending out resumes for Navajo jobs.
Bush flying has always been good to me and paid me what I thought to be fair. So forgive me if I don't jump on the bandwagon.
I can hardly wait for the phone call from some 22 year old with 1500 hours on floats telling me he "demands" $300 a day because he's a big time float jockey.
You guys are not going to walk into a new gig and make $6000 flying a Beaver 20 days a month.
Come on guys lets not let our ego's get the best of us.
Actually there is one on that list who will pay you $300 a day, but he'll start you at $150 and you will probably kill yourself before you make it to $300 a day.
All that being said. Using that Airline pay site. I would have to work as a captain at Jazz for more than 15 years and I still would'nt make what I get now. I think someone else should be asking for more money?
Nope not an owner, Just one of the boys
Bush flying has always been good to me and paid me what I thought to be fair. So forgive me if I don't jump on the bandwagon.
I can hardly wait for the phone call from some 22 year old with 1500 hours on floats telling me he "demands" $300 a day because he's a big time float jockey.
You guys are not going to walk into a new gig and make $6000 flying a Beaver 20 days a month.
Come on guys lets not let our ego's get the best of us.
Actually there is one on that list who will pay you $300 a day, but he'll start you at $150 and you will probably kill yourself before you make it to $300 a day.
All that being said. Using that Airline pay site. I would have to work as a captain at Jazz for more than 15 years and I still would'nt make what I get now. I think someone else should be asking for more money?
Nope not an owner, Just one of the boys
I guesss this subjectiveness is a big part of the question/problem. What WE think is fair is whatever the guy before us or beside us was getting, and what they thought was fair was what the guy before them was making, etc.phillyfan wrote:Bush flying has always been good to me and paid me what I thought to be fair.
And back then, pre 9/11, pre insurance madness, a guy with a bare minimum float endorsement could get a job flying. The float industry was flush with drivers moving through the ranks, from the bottom through to the top. New guys were starting every year and experienced guys were moving on into year-round IFR jobs.
But now in this day and age, post 9/11, there isn't nearly the movement through the ranks that there used to be because operators can't afford to insure no-time float pilots. Yet the experienced guys are still moving on to year-round gigs. Hence the lack of mid to high time float drivers...
And this is why I say, there's never been a better time to 'qualify' yourself for a raise. (The 'demand' a raise part was a play on words Philly...the ole supply and demand thang. Obviously when job hunting, you don't demand anything.)
With the experience you have Philly and with the shortage of experienced guys looking for work, and with the dues you've paid and the crappy places you've lived...all in the name of building your time and experience... you deserve to be making $400 a day, minimum. Plus room and board. Plus medical and dental. Hell, you deserve a company car too!
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
What is the connection between 9/11 and insurance requirements for float plane drivers?And back then, pre 9/11, pre insurance madness,
Insurance can be bought for any pilot even those with a fresh float rating. It just costs the oerator more, thus less pay for the pilot.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Hey Glorified....here's the deal. I'll swap you my multi turbine job for your float gig. We can both make around 60K, and be challenged for a while! You try to keep it right side up in the "soup", and I'll try not to drown doing the walk around! Deal??
And, I'll get the winters off!!!!
And, I'll get the winters off!!!!
We've got an open pilot clause on all our float machines. Including the 208. So I guess if the high timers price themselves outta the market we could just take a 200hour pilot and throw him in it.
In the word's of my old boss. "Low time pilots bend airplanes. High time pilots kill passengers" He also said "if your not bending airplanes, your not taking enough risks" and he's on that list of operators looking for pilots and he's also got an open pilot clause. Fact is you see a lot more operators with the clause. Hell I would rather take a guy outta Confederation College and teach him my way. Rather than have to coddle some crusty old bastard. Glad to see things are starting to tilt back that way. Heard Air Mikisew had a guy with 7 hours float on the Amphib Caravan last summer.
In the word's of my old boss. "Low time pilots bend airplanes. High time pilots kill passengers" He also said "if your not bending airplanes, your not taking enough risks" and he's on that list of operators looking for pilots and he's also got an open pilot clause. Fact is you see a lot more operators with the clause. Hell I would rather take a guy outta Confederation College and teach him my way. Rather than have to coddle some crusty old bastard. Glad to see things are starting to tilt back that way. Heard Air Mikisew had a guy with 7 hours float on the Amphib Caravan last summer.
