Cast your votes and comments please.

Well here are our numbers. Cessna 185 $3500, Beaver $4500, C-208 $6500 to $12,500(depending on years with the company)

Hopefully more then last year, I know a lot of guys going to the IFR world now for a seat in a bigger beer can.

Glad to have you on board Philly! Have you picked out your new truck yet?

$400 a day to fly the 208 or a DHC-3T.

$300 a day to fly the Beaver.

$150 a day to fly a 185/206.

$60 / day for dock slavery
$100 / day for C185/C206
$125 / day for DHC-2
$200 / day for DHC-3 / DHC-3T

It sure as hell ain't what we're worth but thats whats paid where I work. No room / board and lousy tips.

Now all these posts of $400 a day to fly a turbine swine... are these folks being REALLY optimistic of a $140K+ salary or are my co's numbers right bugger low? People really make that kind of cash? Beaver driver's making $5-6K a month??? I am happy making my $3.75K on the -2.

$60 / day for dock slavery
$100 / day for C185/C206
$125 / day for DHC-2
$200 / day for DHC-3 / DHC-3T

It sure as hell ain't what we're worth but thats whats paid where I work. No room / board and lousy tips.

Why do you accept those conditions if they're not what your worth?

jjal wrote:Now all these posts of $400 a day to fly a turbine swine... are these folks being REALLY optimistic of a $140K+ salary or are my co's numbers right bugger low?

Remember most of these gigs only last 4 months, maybe 5, so no, I don't think anyone is suggesting a Turbo otter guy deserves $140K a year. Maybe $40K to $50K a season though.

And yes, your companies numbers are 'right bugger low.' But as long as your Turbo Otter guys are willing to work for...gulp...$200 a day...I just puked a little bit in my mouth...yuck...then everyone else on down the line is going to get paid like sh*t too.

Last season.. dockhands/180 drivers made around 2k/month.. You could make more as you were paid hourly.. for EVERYTHING! not just the flying... BUT! You'd be working pretty much non-stop....
Beaver driver (first season on it) made 3500.. the old timer making 4.5K

Housing provided.. Food was not.. tips weren't all tat great.. I made the most at around 400 total over the summer!

Am making much more than that this season however

IMO the starting wages for the first year in that position should be:
Dockhand > $2000
180/185/206 > $2500-$3000
DHC-2 > $4000-$4500
DHC-3 > $5500-$6000

Again, that's for a first year in that position, obviously more experience warrants more pay. And housing should be provided. If it's not, tack on another $500.

I agree with shimmy;s numbers. Cept that room and board only need be considered when you are in the boonies. IE, there are no places to live ewxcept at the base/camp. In a town, if yo ucan find a place to rent, you gotta rent, just like any other job. If the operator is a nice fellow, maybe they'd have a crew house for ya;s, but it should not be expected.

Also, i wouldent give a fellow much of a raise unless they were worth it. Willing to put in a day worth of work without whining, helping out when the need be (within reason) So what if you got to pile a bit of firewood or cut grass every now and then? it never hurt anyone!! im not saying it is ok to do after a long day, but on those slow days or weather days, you gotta do something during your duty day for yout money!

Shimmy that sounds pretty bang on!

185_guy: I agree to a bit of that.. you shouldn't however be asked to mow the lawn and fix the shed when theres flying to be done (seen it happen a bunch of times)

Pay also depends muchly on the area. If the cost of a jug of milk is 9.50 then the pay should match.. The more remote and shorter the season.. the more the pay. We gotta find some way to live in the off season right?

shimmydampner wrote: 180/185/206 > $2500-$3000
DHC-2 > $4000-$4500
DHC-3 > $5500-$6000

Are we talking gross or net here boyz?

Our $300 a day, $6000K a month, in a DHC-2, is about $4500 after taxes...So I agree with your numbers too Shimmy.

Same for the Otter, $8000K a month is between $5500 and $6000 after taxes.

Totally agree with ya Rowdy. We are there to fly, but on those slow days, when there’s no flying, we shouldn’t be so high and mighty to not help out where we can. But when a trip comes up, bye bye hammer.
If we were grossing the money 180 is taking about (I wish, don’t get me wrong!!) But you can surely expect that all day, every day we were on 'duty' if there was flying or not, the owner would be getting their money's worth from us. No sitting around waiting for a trip to come up, it'd be doing some sort of project! Or, not getting paid for our time.
I don’t think it is fair to compare our jobs to other trades. Aviation is a special trade. One which is not really required. I mean, we need carpenters and plumbers to build us houses. (Sure, maybe we could figure it out, but......)
Who desperately needs airplanes? Maybe someone who is dieing in a remote place, or an oil company wanting to get the oil out of the ground as fast as they can. But, as far as any other traveling, we can drive, hike, take a boat or ferry, canoe and portage. Sure it may take longer, but we are a convenience industry, not a life sustaining much needed one, and we are paid accordingly.

So...185_guy,

Your making 3500 but have to shell out 500/month for rent it the shit hole you've decided to work in not to mention a phone hook up maybe some sat programing what are you left with? Now your wife or girlfriend back home has to live right I mean you have a life outside of this shit hole plus living expenses yada! So my question is if your o.k with 3500 not saying you are but it seems like many of you are what have you gained over the summer...OH! I forgot hours but really asside from that what are you left with 1000/month? Housing methinks should absolutely be provided to you unless your making 5-6000 And even at that rate you should see no deductions in your monthly salary for housing. So I guess that leaves us with a supplied pad for the summer huh?

Think About It Boys
WTF ARE SOME OF YOU THINKING

Kid

A lot of companies are now paying by the duty hour, out here -2 guys are getting between 20 and 25 per duty hour, -3 guys get 24 to 32 per duty hour. Overtime is IAW the Canada labour code so lot's of days in the summer you actually get paid accordingly. This way, you are compensated for your actual time at work and it's up to the company to keep you busy.

The labour situation also will now dictate that float drivers will get more money. If some company wants to hire drivers @ $200/day for the -3, don't work for them, then they will have to increase it to industry standards.

It's long overdue to get rid of the rediculous mileage and flight hour pay schemes. All that happens there is people get pushed into bad decisions because they need the money.

" It's long overdue to get rid of the rediculous mileage and flight hour pay schemes. All that happens there is people get pushed into bad decisions because they need the money. "

Twatter the excuse that the company can not afford to pay is weak.

Why not just add on the pilot's pay as a " extra " would another $25.00 per hour added to a $600.00 per hour airplane worry a customer?

Isn't it strange that many air service operators can afford the drastic insurance hikes and the skyrocketing fuel costs, but claim not to be able to afford the pilot pay raises?

cause most operators have to lavish their personal lifstyles and or daughters/sons every request. Screw the young struggling dockhand/pilot

Idriveplane wrote:cause most operators have to lavish their personal lifstyles and or daughters/sons every request. Screw the young struggling dockhand/pilot

CLASSIC!!

What if they have a daughter and a son? NO WONDER THE PAY SUCKS!

I am not an operator but I am a career pilot and business (not aviation)owner.

From my perspective, the operators are the ones who are taking the financial risk in starting and operating a business. They own it. They do this to make a profit and supply their families with the lifestyle they choose. They are not in the business to make pilots rich or provide a stepping stone to further a pilots career.

What they pay largely depends on what the business will support. If uncontrollable costs such as fuel and insurance increase then so must the revenue to cover it. If competition eliminates the ability to increase revenues, controllable costs such as salaries and benefits suffer.

Profit is what makes a business feasible.

The majority of the time the pilots are getting paid more than the owner. If you have never run an aviation company, how would you know how hard it is to do these days. Why are float company's folding? Fuel and insurance has doubled in the past 4 years, Tariffs have gone up only 5%........I agree totally that the pay should be more, but then watch the maintenance suffer while making calls on a hand held while map reading because your G.P.S. is gone. What about the guy's driving wheels? They are paid even less and there insurance cost's are half.... My suggestion to you fella's that think that running an aviation buisness is easy and full of money, start paying a lille more attention to tthe cost's of things around you. I am not saying that some operators are not taking advantage of their pilots because I could rattle off half a dozen companies off the top of my head that do. If you wanna fly a an aircraft that is not airworthy and dangerous without any paint or radio's ....keep complaining

Are there float ops folding up shop these days, can't say I've heard of any closing their doors??

three off the top of my head Amigo Air in Nanaimo and RnD air and Ile a crosse airways

Glock 17 wrote:three off the top of my head Amigo Air in Nanaimo and RnD air and Ile a crosse airways

Amigo didn't close, they were bought out by Seair. Much like Pacific Wings was bought out by West Coast.

close... bought out... if the service was a money train it probably wouldn't be "bought out"..My point is that everyone is following the tale of "oh he is a pilot, he must be rich" Let's face it plumbers and electricians make lot's of money in their career. Being a pilot, until you have 10 + years you are not making "great" money. This is after spending 30 K plus on your schooling... I agree with most of you on the subject that pay should coincide with investment however until Shell Canada, Loyd's Insuranc, Nav Canada, Transport, all airports, maintenance organizations, manufacturers and on and on and on are tired of making money nothing will change..... Actually I should take everyone out of that list except Shell and the insurance companies....They truly are the pimps in this buisness. Anyone know the profit of Shell last year alone?????