Good day all,
I have a question regarding obtaining your first job in aviation. In looking at all of the employment opportunities for pilots now, I see that a vast majority of them require you to have anywhere between 500 and 1000 hours. What I don't understand is what I am supposed to do between 250 (which incidentally, is what I will be leaving flight school with) and lets say 500. What did you all do to get your first jobs and where they in fact at the 500 to 1000 hour mark? Do prospective companies expect me to rent an airplane and build my time up after I have a Commercial-Multi Group 1?
I guess the question is do companies hire pilots with only 250 hours?
Any advice on this matter would be very helpful.
Thanks
A young pilot
How to obtain your first job!
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Captain_Canuck
- Rank 4
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http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... htm#421_69
or, buy an old buck fifty or colt with a good engine and fly it as much as you can stand for a year or two.
or, buy an old buck fifty or colt with a good engine and fly it as much as you can stand for a year or two.
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wallypilot
- Rank (9)
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- Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:59 pm
- Location: The Best Coast
There are several possibilities:
1. Do a road trip and stop in at several operators that you know hire low timers for ramp/dock positions advancing to FO or PIC on single engine. For a list of operators in your province, or in your area, check this out:
http://www.pilotcareercentre.com/JobRes ... ountryID=1
just start calling and ask them if they hire lowtimers...make a list, and decide where you want to go. Stopping by and handing in a resume in person is a million times better than just randomly sending out resumes.
2. Get an instructor rating and instruct for 1000 hours or so, then hopefully get FO with a charter outfit or PIC on s/e.
3. See the above website for operators of 172/82/206, etc....see if you can't get yourself a flying position right away. It happens, but not that often.
Go North and west (unless you are in B.C., then just head north and a bit east). You will find one of the above 3 options that will work for you somewhere.
But to answer your question, no....you don't need to pay for 250 hours. the only further thing you might need to pay for, depending on what you want to do, is an instructor rating or a float rating.
good luck!
wp
1. Do a road trip and stop in at several operators that you know hire low timers for ramp/dock positions advancing to FO or PIC on single engine. For a list of operators in your province, or in your area, check this out:
http://www.pilotcareercentre.com/JobRes ... ountryID=1
just start calling and ask them if they hire lowtimers...make a list, and decide where you want to go. Stopping by and handing in a resume in person is a million times better than just randomly sending out resumes.
2. Get an instructor rating and instruct for 1000 hours or so, then hopefully get FO with a charter outfit or PIC on s/e.
3. See the above website for operators of 172/82/206, etc....see if you can't get yourself a flying position right away. It happens, but not that often.
Go North and west (unless you are in B.C., then just head north and a bit east). You will find one of the above 3 options that will work for you somewhere.
But to answer your question, no....you don't need to pay for 250 hours. the only further thing you might need to pay for, depending on what you want to do, is an instructor rating or a float rating.
good luck!
wp
Looks like you got some good advice.
However, I am not convinced that a road trip is the way to go. While there is lots of stories circulating of this method, I think you will find most reputable companies want to have a look at whats available and hire the best they can...
anyway, if you chose to ignore that advice, and are going north, do it early. The summer time is busy and not a great time to expect the owner/CFI to visit with you. Now is usually slower and they have some time to spend.
Good luck
However, I am not convinced that a road trip is the way to go. While there is lots of stories circulating of this method, I think you will find most reputable companies want to have a look at whats available and hire the best they can...
anyway, if you chose to ignore that advice, and are going north, do it early. The summer time is busy and not a great time to expect the owner/CFI to visit with you. Now is usually slower and they have some time to spend.
Good luck
Yes, a roadtrip rarely ends in a job. Unless you end up in a place like Yellowknife, and settle down while you wait for something to become 'available'.
However, its a great excuse to see a different chunk of the country, get a feel for some of the towns you'll be working in eventually, meet some chief pilots and line pilots, and get a feel for the 'industry attitude' toward lowtimers. Why wouldn't you go? It's almost a right of passage. No one got a job sittin' in their mama's basement e-mailing resumes.
S.
However, its a great excuse to see a different chunk of the country, get a feel for some of the towns you'll be working in eventually, meet some chief pilots and line pilots, and get a feel for the 'industry attitude' toward lowtimers. Why wouldn't you go? It's almost a right of passage. No one got a job sittin' in their mama's basement e-mailing resumes.
S.
I did a 'roadtrip' when I rented a 172 to build some cross-country hours and got my first job dispatching, getting 50 hours floats flying freight and empty legs. Did another road trip from Prince Rupert to Kenora and got a float job in Saskatchewan in a 180. Did my third road trip to Sask. and got a C185/206 job. 3 road trips - three jobs.
Spent Saturday night in a sh*tty motel in Flin Flon and had to listen to newlyweds all night...oh the sacrifices.
Road trips worked for me.
Spent Saturday night in a sh*tty motel in Flin Flon and had to listen to newlyweds all night...oh the sacrifices.
Road trips worked for me.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
I think myself mostly it's being in the right place at the right time or having true friends that will go in and vouch for you so that at least you get a foot in the door, not fairweather friends that just use you for their gain.
Putting money into aviation is like wiping before you poop....it just don't make sense!
What determines how successful you are as a pilot is ... the year you were born.
Really. Pilots don't give a shit about economics, but the airline business is very cyclical.
Some years, you can have 10,000 hours, 3 moon landings, perfect tan and perfect teeth, and you're not going to get an interview because nobody is hiring anybody.
Other years, if you can see lightning and hear thunder, you're our boy.
Really. Pilots don't give a shit about economics, but the airline business is very cyclical.
Some years, you can have 10,000 hours, 3 moon landings, perfect tan and perfect teeth, and you're not going to get an interview because nobody is hiring anybody.
Other years, if you can see lightning and hear thunder, you're our boy.
N2 wrote
The problem is that you can know someone, enjoy their company. Be best bossom buds and lifelong friends...but...that does not really tell a company anything about their flying ability, getting along with others, other little problems (glug glug..sniff sniff).
The point being that a company is not looking at someone as your best bud. they are looking for an employee and the two dont always match.
The other thing of course is that when someone asks you for a "recommendation", and they are a friend it is hard to say "no...you suck as a pilot and the only reason we are having this conversation is because you seem especially blessed and lucky"
This is, in fact, one of the issues I have had with mentoring programs. In many of these programs the "mentoree" is expecting the "mentor" to open the doors to the chief pilots office. I asked this question when the Avcananda mentor program was starting. would be interested to see some feedback....actually....
This is a really tough area. Some companies have tried the recommend thing and have had to modify it greatly or scrap it.or having true friends that will go in and vouch for you, not fairweather friends that just use you for their gain.
The problem is that you can know someone, enjoy their company. Be best bossom buds and lifelong friends...but...that does not really tell a company anything about their flying ability, getting along with others, other little problems (glug glug..sniff sniff).
The point being that a company is not looking at someone as your best bud. they are looking for an employee and the two dont always match.
The other thing of course is that when someone asks you for a "recommendation", and they are a friend it is hard to say "no...you suck as a pilot and the only reason we are having this conversation is because you seem especially blessed and lucky"
This is, in fact, one of the issues I have had with mentoring programs. In many of these programs the "mentoree" is expecting the "mentor" to open the doors to the chief pilots office. I asked this question when the Avcananda mentor program was starting. would be interested to see some feedback....actually....
Go and Get an instructor rating! Get your 1000 hours in a year or so and door will start opening for bigger better jobs. Ramp work can be fun however there is no garuntee that you will make the flight line. Also company's are short captains now and that PIC time may come in handy. Instructors are in demand right now, and work should be easy to find. It is worth the $6000 or so investment. my 2 cents.
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Spiraldive
- Rank 2
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:07 pm
- Location: OGG
If you have 250 hours, there is no better time than now to get hired in your first job.
Every operator posts what they figure is the best the job market can handle. On average, what they want and what they can get has a ratio of 2:1.
Six years ago, it was 1000 hrs to throw bags. Now its 500 hrs to go direct entry. That means they are hiring 250hr people, but would prefer 500hrs.
So you need either 500 hrs, or some determination.
Soooo....
Find a place you want to work. Camp on their doorstep. Bother them. If you're not a dick, sooner or later you'll get hired.
Every operator posts what they figure is the best the job market can handle. On average, what they want and what they can get has a ratio of 2:1.
Six years ago, it was 1000 hrs to throw bags. Now its 500 hrs to go direct entry. That means they are hiring 250hr people, but would prefer 500hrs.
So you need either 500 hrs, or some determination.
Soooo....
Find a place you want to work. Camp on their doorstep. Bother them. If you're not a dick, sooner or later you'll get hired.
Determination and persistance..
My father called AC everyday for 2 weeks until finally the secretary got pissed off and asked him if he was ever going to stop calling and he said "not until I have an interview" Needless to say he got one a week later!
I've got a similar story myself.
Keep on it.. If you want to fly and are out there promoting yourself.. You'll find a spot.
Best of luck.
rowds
My father called AC everyday for 2 weeks until finally the secretary got pissed off and asked him if he was ever going to stop calling and he said "not until I have an interview" Needless to say he got one a week later!
I've got a similar story myself.
Keep on it.. If you want to fly and are out there promoting yourself.. You'll find a spot.
Best of luck.
rowds
