Ontario Restricting CPL instruction
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Ontario Restricting CPL instruction
The Ontario Gov, with no resistance from Transport Canada, is proceeding with its policy of including Flight Training Units in its Private Career College act. BC already has something similar in place. In Ontario it means that even though an FTU is Federally regulated and mandated (things such as employment standards, health and safety etc all fall under federal juristiction), the Ontario goverment is forcing any FTU that teaches CPL and Instructor Ratings (and possibly Instrument Ratings) to abide by the onerous Private Career College act. It will cost the average FTU over $10,000 to enrol, and thousands per year to continue. For students this will mean only the largest schools will continue to offer CPL or Instructor ratings. Interestingly, the aviation colleges are excempt. However, the schools that provide the flight training for college or university programs, and aren't an integral part of sad college or university will have to comply. So, lots of good schools and instructors will no longer being doing commercial training. Students are going to have far fewer choices, and will experience higher training costs. Instructors will have fewer employment opportunities, especially those leading to multi time. All this to "protect" the consumer, where most non-college schools only utilize a pay-as-you-go system???!!!!
"oh, I have slipped.." into what, we're not sure
Re: Ontario Restricting CPL instruction
It's going to make it next to impossible for the small schools to be able to continue to offer vocational training. There were alot of very angry people at the PCCA "info session"bbb wrote:The Ontario Gov, with no resistance from Transport Canada, is proceeding with its policy of including Flight Training Units in its Private Career College act. BC already has something similar in place. In Ontario it means that even though an FTU is Federally regulated and mandated (things such as employment standards, health and safety etc all fall under federal juristiction), the Ontario goverment is forcing any FTU that teaches CPL and Instructor Ratings (and possibly Instrument Ratings) to abide by the onerous Private Career College act. It will cost the average FTU over $10,000 to enrol, and thousands per year to continue. For students this will mean only the largest schools will continue to offer CPL or Instructor ratings. Interestingly, the aviation colleges are excempt. However, the schools that provide the flight training for college or university programs, and aren't an integral part of sad college or university will have to comply. So, lots of good schools and instructors will no longer being doing commercial training. Students are going to have far fewer choices, and will experience higher training costs. Instructors will have fewer employment opportunities, especially those leading to multi time. All this to "protect" the consumer, where most non-college schools only utilize a pay-as-you-go system???!!!!
If it is anything like Alberta it only affects your provincial status for programs like OSAP. You can offer the training and remain in the Canada Student Loan program and stay out of the provincial scheme. The only problem is the provinical loans are usually the one that get forgiven.
Fee Payers as our system calls the pay as you go students don't fall inside the PVS system and we don't need a licence to train them.
We have been licenced under PVS for many years now and other than some reporting features and having to post a bond to ensure students get some money back if we go under it hasn't changed the way we operate all that much.
Hope things turn out okay in ON. but I only see the extra regulation getting worse as TC harmonizes with the EU.
Fee Payers as our system calls the pay as you go students don't fall inside the PVS system and we don't need a licence to train them.
We have been licenced under PVS for many years now and other than some reporting features and having to post a bond to ensure students get some money back if we go under it hasn't changed the way we operate all that much.
Hope things turn out okay in ON. but I only see the extra regulation getting worse as TC harmonizes with the EU.
No this new legislation covers all flight training units.bobcat18 wrote:If it is anything like Alberta it only affects your provincial status for programs like OSAP. You can offer the training and remain in the Canada Student Loan program and stay out of the provincial scheme
This is very unfortunate for these smaller schools..... but (I hate to be the devils advocate here) I've got a student doing commercial training with me and he came from a smaller school in Ontario that has now since closed its doors.... He has no way of having some of his hours signed off by a representative of the school. The larger schools... who can afford this type of fee have some sort of stability in the industry where some.... not all.... of the smaller FTU live from month to month and may have to close the doors with very short notice..... Leaving the customer out in the cold
I don't agree with it... but I can see where the bureocrats get off
I don't agree with it... but I can see where the bureocrats get off
Having trouble reaching ATC? Squak 7500
This has been put in place to help students if, when they put money down and the school closes they are not screwed with repaying the loan. The thing is MOST smaller schools dont take money up from so the student isnt in danger of losing all their money. Now thses new fees will be passed down to the student. So on top of the aircraft and the instructor they have to pay this retarded fee to help other students in case their school closes. Aviation is federally regualted, provincial governments should keep their nose out of the industry.
Well.......... Once again These guys are trying to take another Job away from me. This government has already cost me one Job and now they are working hardto make sure I dont have a job at all.
The sad thing is that the school I work at now NOT one of us will be able to teach commercial students. I guess the Government dosen't think we are capable. We dont meet there standards that they say industry will approve. Well first they didnt research anything and those standards they set were put together with very little industry input.
But we can fight back. We can do the same to them. HOW? In Oct there will be an election and we can send the same messege to them "They are not capable of running Ontario". We will find new MPP's to replace them all. Do the same as they are doing to us put them all out of work.
The sad thing is that the school I work at now NOT one of us will be able to teach commercial students. I guess the Government dosen't think we are capable. We dont meet there standards that they say industry will approve. Well first they didnt research anything and those standards they set were put together with very little industry input.
But we can fight back. We can do the same to them. HOW? In Oct there will be an election and we can send the same messege to them "They are not capable of running Ontario". We will find new MPP's to replace them all. Do the same as they are doing to us put them all out of work.
They have made amendments to the act stating that as long as you have an instructor rating you can teach.peeelot wrote:Well.......... Once again These guys are trying to take another Job away from me. This government has already cost me one Job and now they are working hardto make sure I dont have a job at all.
The sad thing is that the school I work at now NOT one of us will be able to teach commercial students. I guess the Government dosen't think we are capable. We dont meet there standards that they say industry will approve. Well first they didnt research anything and those standards they set were put together with very little industry input.
They have not yet made any concession on ground school instructors. So, as it stands, you need an instructor rating, or be qualified as described in the Act.Miss Mae wrote:They have made amendments to the act stating that as long as you have an instructor rating you can teach.
Unfoutunatley Pete....the law has already been passed. All flight schools that teach vocational training (CPL, instructor ratings) regardless of size have until Sept 18/07 to register.
Here is the link
http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/general/factsheet1.pdf
Here is the link
http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/general/factsheet1.pdf
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Pilot_adam
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Will that mean students for CPL will be able to get OSAP to cover their training costs ?? if the answer is yes then that might just make it easier for a lot of students ho struggle to pay for their CPL training and schools will simply get more business !!!!
But did the government consider that flight schools in Ontario are paralized most of the winter season due to weather ??!!! It would not be fare to charge them like other Private career colleges.
Cheers
Adam
But did the government consider that flight schools in Ontario are paralized most of the winter season due to weather ??!!! It would not be fare to charge them like other Private career colleges.
Cheers
Adam
It sounds like it will prevent a lot of people from becomming commercial pilots. I started flying later in life while I had a mortgage. The only way I could have gotten a commercial was to train part time at a small school while I worked full time. I'm now flying for Jazz. You would think due to this impending pilot shortage they would try to make it easier for people to pursue the career.
Exactly, you'd think they'd make it easier. During my time building for my commercial, I took a liking to the smaller flight schools...all around nicer environment to train in. This cant affect schools who offer MIFR, PPL, CPL can it? I was thinking small schools who do PPL, CPL with a plane or two at most who wont really take to this.
I am only asking because there are a couple great flight schools who are medium sized with respect to fleet and staff, which would be a shame to see not train CPL...when you have massive schools in TO full of top guns who train because they can afford that...I dont know, just rambling, what a dumb rule.
I am only asking because there are a couple great flight schools who are medium sized with respect to fleet and staff, which would be a shame to see not train CPL...when you have massive schools in TO full of top guns who train because they can afford that...I dont know, just rambling, what a dumb rule.
I attended the information seminar on the PCCA (Private career colleges act)
I myself work in the management department of a small school, and this new law affects all flights schools in Ontario that offer the CPL and instructor ratings. It's going to mean hard times ahead for some of our operations.
I myself work in the management department of a small school, and this new law affects all flights schools in Ontario that offer the CPL and instructor ratings. It's going to mean hard times ahead for some of our operations.
I just called them, don't worry, there is a provision that says the act has to be reviewd every 7 years...................................
Even though some schools did receive money from students and vanished, I can't understand why, pay as you go flight school, or flying clubs, offering CPL training, should be acting under this act. As for the act concerning also non profit organizations, no comments.
Welcome European bureaucracy and killing decision. That s exactly what I was going away from when I left France, guess I ll have to do the same with Ontario.
Even though some schools did receive money from students and vanished, I can't understand why, pay as you go flight school, or flying clubs, offering CPL training, should be acting under this act. As for the act concerning also non profit organizations, no comments.
Welcome European bureaucracy and killing decision. That s exactly what I was going away from when I left France, guess I ll have to do the same with Ontario.
I dont know much about this...I could be missing something, but would this be the reason youd see schools not offer the training anymore?It will cost the average FTU over $10,000 to enrol, and thousands per year to continue.
The avg cpl training is almost double that with time building. To forgo a payment to keep cpl training at your school, and lose all that income from future cpl students...I cant see alot of schools who dont enroll. Again, unless Im missing something...I havent read the link from Miss Mae.
Maybe just a cash grab?The Ontario Gov, with no resistance from Transport Canada, is proceeding with its policy of including Flight Training Units in its Private Career College act. BC already has something similar in place.
You mean to say that a whole bunch of people who have no idea how this will affect the industry got to make this decision?
Well, we should be used to this by now. Here's what you do. Look to your right, look to your left, Quebec and Manitoba will gladly train you. GO!
Well, we should be used to this by now. Here's what you do. Look to your right, look to your left, Quebec and Manitoba will gladly train you. GO!
Timing is everything.
Why go to another province when a perfectly good FTU is just down the road? How stupid. And knowing the way the system works, the good flight schools which are stand up training facilities like the Kawartha Flight Centre's or the St. Thomas Flight Centres, with Class Act instructors...wont be able to teach ME (well others) my cpl (I really hope it doesnt affect mid-size schools like these)? So I have to go to a big school where hotshot topguns are born (city schools, not all tho)...and the only reason they can teach is because they have the money due to bigger client base? errrrr
Unfortunately, Miss Mae is right. I too was there. Pretty much everyone there was really pissed off. The Ont gov people don't know diddleeeee, and admitted so. Had to keep getting clarification on terms, never mind how the majority of us conduct business. And no, this has nothing to do with OSAP or Canada student loans. OSAP had frozen new FTU applicants out at least 6 years ago. When we kept trying to tell them that most of us don't take money up front, they seemed surprised. Had an exerpt from 1 website showing the cost for a CPL. Didn't understand that we do that for informational purposes, and to only check 1 website!!!???!!! As for someone else's comment on here about why wouldn't we all be able to do this since it cost you $20,000 for your commercial, and we would get our fees topping $10,000 back from one or two students, GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE!!!! Everytime one of my aircraft go out the door, it costs me money! I make -$5 to $-10 an hour!! This may be hard to believe, but when you're a small school (anyone with under 5 aircraft, and no in-house maintenance is likely in this boat) the only thing you make money on is instructor time. And we all know that by the time you have the qualifications for your CPL, you have more solo than dual (unless you're a really bad student, or being gouged, but that's another thread). So why do we do it? We love aviation, perhaps we do one or two other things as well, and flight training is cash flow as opposed to charter contracts which can take months for payment. As for a school closing and no way to get time signed off, the Act doesn't address this for aviation at all, as they are accepting the record-keeping part to be covered by what we do via PTR and TC. So yes, charge me money to protect students who aren't going to benefit from this at all, and who are going to have far fewer choices in training, and higher costs in the end. Bitter? You bet.
"oh, I have slipped.." into what, we're not sure
