why are people still learning how to fly? (for a living)

Strega · Post by **Strega** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:44 pm

Permanent position for a supervisor in the cabinetmaking dept.

5 - 10 years as aircraft cabinetmaker.
2 - 4 years experience as supervisor, or crew chief in aerospace industry.

Salary to be discussed in interview. (minimum 65K/year)

Please send your resume by email or by fax to the attention of Fabien.
Email: fabien@jobsimon.com
Fax: 514-845-9090
Bizzare!

C-FABH · Post by **C-FABH** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:07 pm

Do *you* find cabinets more enjoyable than flying?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:11 pm

Cabinetmaker is a skilled trade.

Flying airplanes is just driving a machine and it does not require the time and skills needed to qualify to be a pilot as does cabinetmaking.

1000 HP · Post by **1000 HP** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:39 pm

To any pilots that want to quit flying to make cabinets: I salute you ( and will gladly accept a pay raise as those of us who stay become more valuable

)

Cod Father · Post by **Cod Father** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:47 pm

Maybe its because flight schools are promoting things like this:

http://www.mfc.nb.ca/news_view.php?nid=53

Airlines Are Hiring

The airlines are starting to show some dramatic increases in activity over the last year. Most airlines are hiring again and all indicators are that this trend will continue for the foreseeable future. Our inquiries from prospective students are on the increase.

The International Air Transport Association recently released their statistics for the last year. The year to date comparisons of 2005 over 2004 for Revenue Passenger Kilometers is up 7.3% world wide and up 10.3% for North America. This is good news.

Give us a call to secure your seat.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:15 pm

" Give us a call to secure your seat. "

That is great, a guaranteed airline job.

Here is your koolaid.

teh_flyguy · Post by **teh_flyguy** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:48 pm

Given a second chance, I would take a well-paying non-aviation job so I could afford to fly as a hobby, perhaps even earn enough to afford my own airplane, then do it for fun rather than a living.

27pilot · Post by **27pilot** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:56 pm

teh_flyguy

(I hope I spelled it right). That is a good way to do it. In the oil patch I've met a half dozen pilots who got their 250 h & multi-IFR. They found out how the industry really is when they looked for work. Now they're frac engineers or well testers or work in pipeline construction and rent aircraft from flying clubs on their days off. Especially pipeline. All the pipeline workers I meet can't buy enough toys with the money they make.

pianodude · Post by **pianodude** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:41 am

i put almost 3000 hours and six years in before i figured out that the inherent b.s. associated with the industry wasn't worth the pleasure of the time in the air so i called it quits...now as a working musician/piano technician, i make way more money and on my terms. my $.02

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:22 am

I put in 4500 hrs in 7 years and just got hired by a big airline last fall. My pay has not been yet, and won't be above $45K for another 2 years. But it was worth every minute and will continue to be a great career choice because I love what I do.

Cat, enought with the no skills required to be a pilot bs. People actually listen to you (I have no idea why). Statements like that are so full of crap I can't believe you have any credibility. A cabinetmaker has more skills than an airline pilot? We "drive a machine" as much as a cabinetmaker "cuts wood and glues it together".

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:25 am

I'm sorry you find it so difficult Dockjock.

I am only comparing the skills I needed to learn ( to become an operator of a machine designed as safe and easy to operate as humanly possible. ) compared to the skills and work my father had to aquire to be a master cabinet maker.

If you don't like my attitude regarding the subject of flying get back to me further down the road when the penny drops Dockjock and you finally realize just how led by the hand this business is.....

.....hell man if you can make it to the airport all on your own in your car and get your aluminum high tech machine in the air ATC will shepherd you safely to wherever you are going.

In other words don't get on my case because I don't find being a pilot as big a deal as you appear to.

HMMMM · Post by **HMMMM** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:45 am

They have to start a separate forum soon for all of those that are so screwed over by the industry of which they chose. I feel so bad for all of you and I think we should start a charity for you people so you don't have to work at all and fly when you want and on whatever aircraft you like.
If you don't like what your doing and you think your not getting paid enough (to sit in a seat and monitor a auto pilot for some of you) quit your compaining and do something else. Us pilots are no more than taxi drivers. I, for one, fly because that is what I like to do and most of you are the same. No wonder pilots have such a bad rep. for complaining, I have never seen or heard of any other industry with the whining and compaining such as this.

Falken · Post by **Falken** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:47 am

Cat, you have to agree that at least to some extent.. that flying is more exciting than making a cabinet.. that as a pilot you have much more responsibility to the public and their safety.. that flying an airplane can be a lot more difficult & stressful than putting together a cabinet.. etc etc

I don't mean any offence when I say this, but you're really jaded. Perhaps after a life of flying we might all end up that way. Cheer up, try to be a little more positive once in a while.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:53 am

Well said Hmmmmm.

May I add that some of these difficulty challenged people are also fact challenged.

This Dockjock poster had the audacity to post on Pprune a while ago that I have a reputation for not only being a B.S. artist but I have been known as a regulation breaker during my career.

With that kind of misguided colleauge out there no wonder some of us feel disgusted with the industry.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:02 am

" I don't mean any offence when I say this, but you're really jaded. Perhaps after a life of flying we might all end up that way. Cheer up, try to be a little more positive once in a while "

Naw, falken I'm not jaded and of course there are plusses to being a pilot.

What I try and do is bring a little reality into the equasion by pointing out that being a pilot is not really all that difficult.

Oh, by the way I am far from finished with flying, as long as I have my phone still connected and my e-mail working I am never short of work opportunities.

Just in the last week or two I accepted one contract in Africa and sort of committed to another interesting offer in California.

Oh...I forgot, I prefer building airplanes to flying them because like cabinet making it requires far more skill....at least that is what I find.

Kilo-Kilo · Post by **Kilo-Kilo** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:53 am

Cat Driver wrote: Oh...I forgot, I prefer building airplanes to flying them because like cabinet making it requires far more skill....at least that is what I find.

I think the intent was show that the advertised position's pay was way out of line. Do the math and it comes out to $31.25 an hour. For those that have been used to earning McWages that seems like an awfull lot of money for watching some guys bradnail trim on a cabinet.

But, if it were only so easy.

The knee jerk reaction here to dismiss all trades that involve hand tools here as nothing but blue-collar and low on the hierarchy of skill just shows the naivety and lack of real world experience possessed by the young know-it-alls who demand satifaction from the world because they are somehow superior. Wise up suckers, every ladder has a bottom rung.

You don't go from building a Homer Simpson spice rack to a Steinway piano overnight. Some skills actually have to be learned, not just paid for.

Falken · Post by **Falken** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:38 am

Kilo-Kilo wrote: The knee jerk reaction here to dismiss all trades that involve hand tools here as nothing but blue-collar and low on the hierarchy of skill just shows the naivety and lack of real world experience possessed by the young know-it-alls who demand satifaction from the world because they are somehow superior. Wise up suckers, every ladder has a bottom rung.

Not sure that anyone in this thread was insulting the cabinet makers of the world... more just reaffirming they love flying and think that its a skill as well. Most flying jobs are something people would consider blue collar anyway.

What else do you expect on a forum dedicated to pilots? If it were a cabinet making forum and they were compared to some trade that made even more money.. say tool & die.. wouldnt you expect the same response? I dont think that saying we think flying is more interesting / fun / etc is reason to call us "naive, young, know-it-alls, suckers, with a superiority complex"

I think you'd have to be pretty naive yourself to go into a room full of lawyers and tell them that sales/marketing is better and not expect some sort of response. You're sampling a bias group there... just as you are here.

Falken · Post by **Falken** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:47 am

Cat Driver wrote: Naw, falken I'm not jaded and of course there are plusses to being a pilot.

What I try and do is bring a little reality into the equasion by pointing out that being a pilot is not really all that difficult.

Oh...I forgot, I prefer building airplanes to flying them because like cabinet making it requires far more skill....at least that is what I find.

Glad you hear that you're smilin

You're right, flying itself might not be all that tough.. maybe its all the crap we have to go through to be able to fly thats the real test of character.

Anyway, I love designing/building airplanes too. It's what I focused on in engineering. Flying for a living was my backup, but after wasting a year of my life in an office (albeit in a non-aviation field).. I'm starting to think about flying for a living more and more. Money isn't worth it if you don't enjoy your job.

Morav · Post by **Morav** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:57 am

Cat

So your saying landing a DC3 with a 50kt xwind in Resolute is not all that difficult?

Why are you always so quick to generalize everyone in the Industry? Including TC.

Take it easy.

I am not worthy

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:54 am

"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cat

So your saying landing a DC3 with a 50kt xwind in Resolute is not all that difficult?

The DC3 is an easy airplane to fly and when you have thousands of hours on one it is not al that difficult to land it with a 50 knot X/wind.

What do you want me to do try and make a big deal over flying an airplane for a living? I was relpying to a question specific to a type what is wrong with some of you people, can't you read a simple answer.... So no , it is no big deal..O.K.?

Why are you always so quick to generalize everyone in the Industry? Including TC.

Once again I'm having to explain something that anyone with the reading comprehension of a third grade child should be able to figure out.

I am quite specific in who and what I find deplorable in TCCA, in fact I name names and describe exactly what the problems are....generalizing about pilots is another matter considering some of the talent out there.

Take it easy.

Why would you say that, I have an exceptionally sucessful working relationship with the people who employ me.

I am not worthy

I take it you are infering you feel inferior, ahhh well maybe you should find something not quite so difficult to do then.

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:44 pm

Cat Driver wrote: The DC3 is an easy airplane to fly and when you have thousands of hours on one it is not al that difficult to land it with a 50 knot X/wind.

I'm getting into that "thousands" of hours mark and I still get anxious when winds are howling off the wing. Maybe because it's in a metro and I don't have thousands of hours in that plane but I can't see it being too much easier with 4 thousand hours in those squirrly things. I've flown with alot of captains with thousands of metro hours and they change when the wind comes 90 degrees out, at night, in freezing rain. The calls are shorter and the breathing heavier. It'll never get "easy."

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:50 pm

O.K. @#$! IT, I GIVE UP!!

YES, YES I'M SCARED SHITLESS LANDING IN STRONG X/WINDS.

ESPECIALLY IN A DC3.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:59 pm

You are one messed up old cat, uh, Cat.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:07 pm

Yeh, Dockjock I'm really messed up!

You of course are a expert on what normal is huh?

And once again Dockjock being an old cat means kittens like you can't screw me around.

FL_CH · Post by **FL_CH** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:10 pm

ahahahahaah

Brilliant, Cat. A+