IFR Question

movingagain · Post by **movingagain** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:44 pm

Hello
In the Cap Gen under " Alternate Weather Minima ", in the box, "NO IFR Approach Available", i'm not exactly sure what is meant by, "forecast weather must be no lower than 500 Feet above a minimum IFR altitude that will permit a VFR approach and landing"
Does it mean that for example, the MDA is 600 AGL for the approach...the weather must be at least 500 ft above that? So 1100BKN/OVC? Or are they refering to 500 ft above the MSA or MEA or ?
Thanks

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:00 pm

Dont' ya just love how easy to understand these rules get as they keep changing them?

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:00 pm

I'm just working on my IFR, but i think that it would be above the MEA/MSA, beacuse if there was a MDA you'd have an approach and could circle?

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:49 pm

Find the minimum IFR altitude ie; MEA, MOCA, MSA, etc and add 500'.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:58 pm

it'll be based on the lowest official ifr altitude in that area, based on whatever you can find. If all you have is area altitude on the enroute chart then you have to use that, if the airport happens to be underneath an airway, you can use the MEA or MOCA for that airway. It has to be an IFR altitude, any IFR altitude. If you descend and are still in cloud, you miss, otherwise if you get the field in sight, you land. Giddy-up!

sierra yankee · Post by **sierra yankee** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:59 pm

If you're talking to ATC they should advise you of the minimum IFR altitude when clearing you out of controlled airspace. As above, if the airport doesn't have an instrument approach and there's no airway nearby, we'll usually either use a 100-mile safe alt off a navaid or a minimum vectoring altitude if we've got one. At least in the sectors I work, the 100-mile safes are usually lower. If we've got both, obviously we'll give you whichever is lower.

If you don't have the field at that altitude, another possible option if there's another field nearby with an instrument approach is to go there, shoot the approach to get under the deck, then cancel IFR and .. run to the original destination. Obviously ATC isn't going to suggest this but pilots will often request it and we'll accommodate. It's a pretty good option if there's say a 2,000 foot ceiling and the minimum IFR altitude is 3,500.

Hope this helps.

movingagain · Post by **movingagain** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:35 pm

thank u all for your time.
in this situation..i'm trying to find out if, when wanting to use an airport with a GPS approach only as an alternate, what weather would i need on the GFA. In the Cap Gen it says u must use the " NO IFR Approach Available" when a GPS approach only is available.
This particular airport has a GPS approach only with an MDA which is also the circling height, both 600AGL.

I would think that this means 500 ft above the MDA of the GPS approach?
Thanks again

Axial Flow · Post by **Axial Flow** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:04 am

Think of yourself in the airplane going to an airport with no approach...what altitude would you descend to in cloud without doing the app, so either AMA, MEA, MOCA, 100 mile if available off another airport with an approach....etc
then add 500 feet to that altitude

towbird · Post by **towbird** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:08 am

If you are not approved to fly the GPS approach, you cannot use the MDA for that approach and add 500. But you can use the MSA 25 NM, if you are able to have the distance from the waypoint it's based of.

movingagain · Post by **movingagain** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:59 am

Hello
thanks for the reply's. The GPS we use is IFR certified so we can go down to the MDA on the approach.

Flying Nutcracker · Post by **Flying Nutcracker** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:35 pm

Is it me or is this going around in circles???

Whether or not your GPS is certified doesn't really matter it if the CAP GEN says that you cannot use those minimas, does it???

Smells like fish...!

movingagain · Post by **movingagain** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:47 pm

Well, the reason i stated whether or not our GPS was IFR certified was to say that if we do have to go to the alternate...we can legally go down to the MDA of the approach at the alternate..not just the MEA of the airway above the airport or the AMA if there is no airway nearby.
Anyways...think i've received my answer. "a minimum IFR altitude that will permit a VFR approach and landing" Sounds like the minimum IFR altitude is the MDA of the GPS approach at the alternate. So i'll add 500' and use that as my minimum weather on the GFA to use that airport as an alternate.
Thanks all...end of topic

BTD · Post by **BTD** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:20 pm

I think you need to be careful with that one. If you read Note 1 following that alternate weather stuff it says that these requirements are based on TAFs. If using a GFA it must be 1000 feet above the lowest HAA etc 3 miles etc.

And you only have to use "No IFR approach Available" if you don't meet the above requirements listed A-D

a) completely independent approach at destination
b) ....
c)...
d)....

at the beginning of the bottom paragraph it says "otherwise". Read the COM secition 3.16 about the GPS it lays it all out in there.

If you have met A-D then you can use 800-2 or 300-1 for your GPS approach.

BTD

pelmet · Post by **pelmet** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:35 pm

[quote="movingagain"]Well, the reason i stated whether or not our GPS was IFR certified was to say that if we do have to go to the alternate...we can legally go down to the MDA of the approach at the alternate..not just the MEA of the airway above the airport or the AMA if there is no airway nearby.
Anyways...think i've received my answer. "a minimum IFR altitude that will permit a VFR approach and landing" Sounds like the minimum IFR altitude is the MDA of the GPS approach at the alternate. So i'll add 500' and use that as my minimum weather on the GFA to use that airport as an alternate.
Thanks all...end of topic[/quote]

So just to double check....Is your GPS certified for IFR approaches and are you trained to fly IFR approaches(if flying commercially)?

movingagain · Post by **movingagain** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:49 pm

Ok figured it out now..thanks all.

movingagain · Post by **movingagain** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:15 pm

hey pelmet...yes

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:39 am

movingagain, you do not have it figured out and your CAP GEN is out of date.