AC/ACPA/JAZZ/ALPA meeting?
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
AC/ACPA/JAZZ/ALPA meeting?
Any news on the meeting(s?) that were supposed to occur on the 2nd?
Nobody is saying anything .. from either side. Which means everything you hear is just rumour, or what people think/want to happen. But nothing has happened or been said yet. Im sure when something does happen or is said it'll rip though the forum at lightning speed .. don't worry.
Cheers,
Loc
Cheers,
Loc
-
twinpratts
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1625
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:38 am
- Location: The Wild Wild West.
- Contact:
-
Brick Head
- Rank 8
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:37 pm
-
Brick Head
- Rank 8
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:37 pm
-
twinpratts
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1625
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:38 am
- Location: The Wild Wild West.
- Contact:
Is this for real? ok... time for plan b.Brick Head wrote:AC has stated there is no way they will entertain a single list.
Any Jazz guys needing a Teal team interview, PM me.
I want to die like my grandfather did, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...
You do not require a common seniority list in order to have a unified voice. What is important more than anything is that both sides avoid any temptation to play into the hands of their respective mgmt groups. Second to this is that though it may be utopic, if mgmt is confronted with an employee group (not just pilots) that have stated they will back eachother up, then they might take negotiations seriously. Unfortunately that is not likely to ever happen.
-
Brick Head
- Rank 8
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:37 pm
Exactly. So why on earth did anyone actually expect them to say yes? Why would they help the cause?
Without their consent the idea of a single bargaining unit will not see the light of day.
The other reason they are not interested is because it flys in the face of the direction Air Canada has been heading since CCAA. That evolution, when complete, will see 5 completely separate stand alone companies that will sink or swim on their own. Companies that have to compete on the open market for contracts and CPAs once their present contracts expire.
The options remaining:
-joining the same union as two separate bargaining units.
ACPA or ALPA or create a new union within Canada.
or
-Create a new body that over sees ACPA and ALPA within Canada.
or
-Just create a joint negotiation committee.
or
Nothing and keep going down the present path.
Without their consent the idea of a single bargaining unit will not see the light of day.
The other reason they are not interested is because it flys in the face of the direction Air Canada has been heading since CCAA. That evolution, when complete, will see 5 completely separate stand alone companies that will sink or swim on their own. Companies that have to compete on the open market for contracts and CPAs once their present contracts expire.
The options remaining:
-joining the same union as two separate bargaining units.
ACPA or ALPA or create a new union within Canada.
or
-Create a new body that over sees ACPA and ALPA within Canada.
or
-Just create a joint negotiation committee.
or
Nothing and keep going down the present path.
-
arewethereyet
- Rank 3
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:30 pm
- Location: T/O
-
Brick Head
- Rank 8
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:37 pm
Here we go again. 
It's all ACPA's fault.
It's all ACPA's fault Air Canada won't entertain the idea.
Yes there is a lot of water under the bridge and both sides were at fault at various times.
Most deals that happen between adversaries, usually happen when one or both sides feel they have no choice. When people feel the other options are too risky. ALPA Jazz had ACPA in such a position during the small jet mediation/arbitration.
ALPA and ACPA were this frickin close to a deal during the small jet mediation. I am referring to the mediation stage of the process not the arbitration nor the GS talks that followed later. ALPA was offered a deal, by ACPA, that would have seen ALPA Jazz get all 30 705's and a merged list, ACPA the 190's. ACPA offered the deal to avoid arbitration which they saw as risky.
It was ALPA's choice to reject the offer and go after the Emb. 190's in arbitration. We all no the results. The mediators report was published with a 50/50 split on the 75 seat aircraft. The arbitration proceeded but was never published as both sides agreed to the mediators report before it's release.
It was this offer, made by ACPA and rejected by ALPA, during the mediation process that made Teplitsky push for talks between the parties because he saw just how close it got. From this was born the global solution talks.
However this is really just a mute point. With hind sight it is now apparent that ACE/Air Canada/Jazz never would have agreed to a single unit anyway even if a deal had been reached between ACPA and ALPA. What we didn't know at the time was the direction this new corperate structure would go. What we didn't know was that it was really already too late for a single list.
Just because we are not one unit does not mean we can not work together to avoid manipulation.
It's all ACPA's fault.
It's all ACPA's fault Air Canada won't entertain the idea.
Yes there is a lot of water under the bridge and both sides were at fault at various times.
Most deals that happen between adversaries, usually happen when one or both sides feel they have no choice. When people feel the other options are too risky. ALPA Jazz had ACPA in such a position during the small jet mediation/arbitration.
ALPA and ACPA were this frickin close to a deal during the small jet mediation. I am referring to the mediation stage of the process not the arbitration nor the GS talks that followed later. ALPA was offered a deal, by ACPA, that would have seen ALPA Jazz get all 30 705's and a merged list, ACPA the 190's. ACPA offered the deal to avoid arbitration which they saw as risky.
It was ALPA's choice to reject the offer and go after the Emb. 190's in arbitration. We all no the results. The mediators report was published with a 50/50 split on the 75 seat aircraft. The arbitration proceeded but was never published as both sides agreed to the mediators report before it's release.
It was this offer, made by ACPA and rejected by ALPA, during the mediation process that made Teplitsky push for talks between the parties because he saw just how close it got. From this was born the global solution talks.
However this is really just a mute point. With hind sight it is now apparent that ACE/Air Canada/Jazz never would have agreed to a single unit anyway even if a deal had been reached between ACPA and ALPA. What we didn't know at the time was the direction this new corperate structure would go. What we didn't know was that it was really already too late for a single list.
Just because we are not one unit does not mean we can not work together to avoid manipulation.
-
North of You
- Rank 3
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 9:21 pm
- Location: On the Grassy Knoll, Fat Dumb and Happy
