Canada asks Pentagon for early delivery of new cargo planes
10 Jun, 3:03 PM
OTTAWA (CP) - National Defence wants to jump the queue once again to get faster delivery of new Hercules tactical-lift aircraft and has formally asked the Pentagon if it can butt into line ahead of the U.S. military.
Canada is hoping to start receiving the new model of the venerable C-130 by 2009, a full year ahead of the previously established schedule, according to a senior Defence official.
The Pentagon is "favourable to the idea," said Dan Ross, the department's assistant deputy minister of material.
An official decision by the Americans has yet to be made because Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government is still negotiating a final contract with U.S. defence giant Lockheed Martin for the $4.9 billion purchase 17 C-130J Hercules.
"We're hoping we'll be able to get the opportunity to start training new crews and technicians on the 130J before 2010," Ross said in an interview with The Canadian Press.
He added that the Americans see it as being in their interest to help Canada get the aircraft as quickly as possible.
"I mean, we work together around the world and (we're) obviously co-operating very, very closely in Afghanistan," said Ross. "So they need Canada to be as militarily self-sufficient as possible."
One of the biggest problems facing NATO countries in Afghanistan is a shortage of air transport, including tactical-lift and helicopters.
Ottawa's intention to buy new tactical-lift aircraft was first announced last summer, but opposition and industry critics stepped up their attacks in November when the Conservatives acknowledged they were negotiating exclusively with Lockheed Martin.
On Friday, the U.S. aerospace firm's main competitor - Airbus Military - tried to do an end-run around the Defence Department. It dropped an unsolicited proposal on the desks of members of the House of Commons defence committee and called for the C-130J purchase to be scrapped.
At present, the Canadian air force employs a small group of Hercules transports in Afghanistan. Flying out a base in the Middle East, the aircraft are used for supply drops to NATO troops at far-flung desert bases.
But the bulk of Canada's fleet of 32 C-130E and C-130H cargo planes, purchased between 1960 and 1997, is reaching the end of its life.
Last fall, National Defence made a similar queue-jumping request for early delivery of four C-17 Globemaster heavy-lift cargo aircraft and 16 CH-47 Chinook helicopters from U.S.-based Boeing Aircraft Corp.
The first of the massive four-engine C-17s, which can lift 77,500 kilograms of equipment, including battle tanks, begin arriving this summer.
The helicopters, which are meant to haul troops and equipment around the battlefield, are more problematic. Countries in line to receive new Chinooks have been unwilling to budge, and Canada has also requested a series of modifications to the choppers.
Canada asks Pentagon for early delivery of new cargo planes
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
Canada asks Pentagon for early delivery of new cargo planes
Problem is that the American's aren't exactly willing to budge on this issue. C-17's, yes, they need orders to to keep production going as they want more C-17's in the future and don't have the funds to buy them ATM. C-130J's, the Americans need desperately to replace ageing C-130E and C-130H models, as it has been found that there is extensive centre wing box fatigue and cracking. It has come to the point where either the Americans have to either rebuild the centre wing box or replace them with new C-130J's. They may listen to us and let us have a few birds (won't be enough), but they really need all the Hercs they can get. And we need Hercs bad; the current CF C-130 fleet is imploding right this very moment. We are loosing airframes to metal fatigue as they no longer safe to fly roughly at the rate of 2-3 frames per year right now starting last year. We are really flying them into the ground. And yes, they are that worn out; injecting more money into them is no longer feasible as we are well past that point. In fact we've been doing that now for the last 10 years with new outer wings, new engine upgrades, avionics upgrades, empenage upgrades, the list goes on. Right now, we have reached a point where it is no long fiscally responsible to put more money into them. We need new birds and so do the Americans, almost just as much as we need new birds.
One has to keep in mind that the Americans use their C-130's in many more ways than the CAF do. We use them to transport large items and S& R and that about totals are usage for them. The Americans are just getting started at that point and they also equip certain models of Hercs with "specialty" equipment like "weapons avoidance systems of all types, "Puff the Magic Dragon" Gatling guns firing 6000 rpm and and forward and side firing cannons. They are used a great deal in troop support as mentioned above, during different venues and are capable of getting their feet "very dirty" if need be.
So the Americans are satisfying a lot more needs for Hercs in their military than the CAF is in theirs. This does not suggest that the CAF needs them any less, but the "many mouths" will get fed before the numbers of "lesser mouths". If I were the Americans, I wouldn't "budge" either.
So the Americans are satisfying a lot more needs for Hercs in their military than the CAF is in theirs. This does not suggest that the CAF needs them any less, but the "many mouths" will get fed before the numbers of "lesser mouths". If I were the Americans, I wouldn't "budge" either.
I disagree. Our impending order of 17 airframes is less than a drop in the proverbial bucket. Assuming the delivery schedule is 3-5 aircraft/year, I don't think the USAF would even notice.
LH...granted we don't have any EW/grd attack variants but we do use ours for air drop and air to air refueling along with airlift and SAR.
LH...granted we don't have any EW/grd attack variants but we do use ours for air drop and air to air refueling along with airlift and SAR.
Even though it'd be nice, I dont think we need the entire delivery pushed up. If they threw us a bone with 4-6 aircraft to get trained up and relieving stress, the regular delivery timeline would probably work out. By that time we'll have some C-17's going too.
They're not asking for anything crazy, "a full year"? The article makes it sound like a big deal, but in the past procurement would have taken "a full decade".
They're not asking for anything crazy, "a full year"? The article makes it sound like a big deal, but in the past procurement would have taken "a full decade".
I admire and am thankful for the Conservatives determination to get this done. There is a long overdue military requirement, and pushing this ahead will ensure it doesn't get hopelessly bogged down in bureaucratic inertia that has killed many procurement projects in this country.
