Since when does being a smoker / non-smoker have anything to do with how well you can do a ramp job???
From AvCanada:
Date:10 September 2004
Position:Ramp Worker
Company Name:Wabusk Air
Contact Person:Dominic or Paul
Street Address:P.O. Box 971
Moosonee, Ontario
P0L 1Y0
City:Moosonee
State/Province:Ontario
Country:Canada
Fax number:(705) 336-2795
Send Resume By:Fax,Mail
Aircraft Types:PA31 / C185 / C172
Job Description:
Please send your resume by fax or mail, please no phone calls
Requirements: Commercial Licence
If possible, enter smoker or non-smoker in your resume
Salary:$TBN
As if they don't have enough to judge people on already!
Smoking/Non Smoking???
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
I agree that it has nothing to do with how well you can ramp,
OT,
Noticed it last night at the bar, this girl was an obvious smoker, her breath was rank with it...couldn't get it outta my mind. Now maybe if she'd had enough curves to make up for it..........
yech..no thanks, I'd rather not kiss an ashtray.
OT,
Noticed it last night at the bar, this girl was an obvious smoker, her breath was rank with it...couldn't get it outta my mind. Now maybe if she'd had enough curves to make up for it..........
yech..no thanks, I'd rather not kiss an ashtray.
Just callin it like it is.
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No more BS
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Smoking/Non Smoking???
I can see why:
Do you ever see a non-smoker go for a smoke-break?
Do you ever see a non-smoker go for a smoke-break?
<HAHA> you guys are funny. They don't want the non-smoker...Do you ever see a non-smoker go for a smoke-break?
It's Moosonee..... They want a smoker, because (th)he(y)'ll be outside smoking yet doing the job....
A non-smoker has little motivation to go outside.
**
(th y) added, even though I'm sure they'd pass on the female candidates.
Things that make you go hmmmm...
I'm just thinking about a ramp candidate working a solid 10 hour shift, rolling 200 fuel barrels up a steep ramp to a lodge or something. You tell me if the smoking/non-smoking attributes come into play here...
...Yes I did notice that the largest a/c was a PA-31, but just think about that scenario...
Fly Safe
...Yes I did notice that the largest a/c was a PA-31, but just think about that scenario...
Fly Safe
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jackrabbit
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Not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure this is an illegal question. Unfortunatley if you don't specify, you probably won't get hired. Smoking is still legal if I'm not mistaken. Pretty clear discrimination. Kinda like asking to put your age and sex on a resume. Sh!t like this seems to be getting outta hand with some of these shady operators.
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Panama Jack
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In the United States, Alaska Airlines has for quite a while (at least 10 years) had a tobacco-free policy-- they do not hire smokers and a "nicotine test" is part of the pre-employment screening. I know of another former employer (US company) that also has adopted the policy of being tobacco-free. How this works in Canada, I don't know.
A few years ago a US company tried to get around the no-smoking ban by operating scheduled-charter flights-- they were called "Smoker's Express." The company didn't last long. "Come fly the flemmy skies.."
A few years ago a US company tried to get around the no-smoking ban by operating scheduled-charter flights-- they were called "Smoker's Express." The company didn't last long. "Come fly the flemmy skies.."
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
-President Ronald Reagan
-President Ronald Reagan
I am asked not if I am a smoker(I'm not) but how many cigarettes I smoke a day on my aviation medical.(Answer - none)
It was a requirement that I quit smoking in order to get my medical reinstated after my heart attack in 1998. I had already quit on the advise of my cardoligist and the threats of my wife and I was ready to quit so it was quite easy for me.
Now I can relate to those who want to work in a smoke free environment, especially indoors, and for safety reasons but for those with a personal agenda, tell them to go pound salt,(from the unemployment line).
Nothing pisses me off more than some goddamn bleeding heart who tries to force their beliefs, wants and dislikes on me simply because they are simple minded control freaks. If you want to prohibit smoking in the airplane in flight, that is one thing. There are documentable hazards and extra expense that owners have the right to prevent but if they say you cannot smoke in a suitable place, to hell with them.
At least that is my opinion.
It was a requirement that I quit smoking in order to get my medical reinstated after my heart attack in 1998. I had already quit on the advise of my cardoligist and the threats of my wife and I was ready to quit so it was quite easy for me.
Now I can relate to those who want to work in a smoke free environment, especially indoors, and for safety reasons but for those with a personal agenda, tell them to go pound salt,(from the unemployment line).
Nothing pisses me off more than some goddamn bleeding heart who tries to force their beliefs, wants and dislikes on me simply because they are simple minded control freaks. If you want to prohibit smoking in the airplane in flight, that is one thing. There are documentable hazards and extra expense that owners have the right to prevent but if they say you cannot smoke in a suitable place, to hell with them.
At least that is my opinion.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
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permateacher
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Smoking
I think a suitable place is outside, and a time is on break. Some people think that smokers are just lazy, constantly going outside for smoke breaks. If you have to smoke every half hour or something and need to stop work to do it... then it is getting in the way of your job and it doesn't belong in the work place. If you only smoke on normal breaks however or when there is a lull in the action then I see no problem with it. And as for asking that stuff in an interview or pre-employment screening... I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that's OK. Federally, you can't discriminate against age, race, sex, creed, sexual preference or maritial status. It's the same as asking if someone drinks, a fair question.
People's work ethic alone should define who they are, not if they smoke. A person with a good work ethic will get the job done first and smoke only when appropriate. All the ramp jobs I know pilots sign up for are supposed to lead to a plane, so the smoker would be shooting themselves in the foot if they had to stop work every half-hour to smoke.
People's work ethic alone should define who they are, not if they smoke. A person with a good work ethic will get the job done first and smoke only when appropriate. All the ramp jobs I know pilots sign up for are supposed to lead to a plane, so the smoker would be shooting themselves in the foot if they had to stop work every half-hour to smoke.
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Panama Jack
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Interesting topic.
Here's an interesting question that comes to mind. Assuming that one day currently prohibited substances, such as marijuana, are legalized, will it be appropriate for an aviation employer to ask "do you smoke marijuana?"
Here's an interesting question that comes to mind. Assuming that one day currently prohibited substances, such as marijuana, are legalized, will it be appropriate for an aviation employer to ask "do you smoke marijuana?"
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
-President Ronald Reagan
-President Ronald Reagan
Given the location, they may want a smoker because they aren't likely to complain about smoking in the workplace as would many non-smokers.
On the other hand, smokers on average book more time off sick than do non-smokers (yes, I know not all), and if an employer offers an extended health, group life, etc, benefits package they may get a break on their premium if they only employ non-smokers.
On the other hand, smokers on average book more time off sick than do non-smokers (yes, I know not all), and if an employer offers an extended health, group life, etc, benefits package they may get a break on their premium if they only employ non-smokers.
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Always Moving
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FREAKY!
Soon enough, they will be asking you how much body fat you have and if you are a bit overweight, you get the axe,"sorry the einsurance said that FAT people cost more to cover..."
PJ you brought up an interesting point.
I do not, nor have I ever smoked marijuana nor will I associate with anyone who does and I am totally against legalizing the shit, but if they do, I firmly believe that marijuana is a mind altering drug and therefore anyone who smokes it and then tries to fly an airplane is doing something illegal and jepordising the safety of the travelling public.
It is exactly the same as trying to fly drunk. There is no difference.
If I suspected my co-pilot smoked a joint prior to flight, I would request another pilot and when I got a replacement, I would leave him behind.
His next step would be to be fired, if I had anything to say about it.
It is going to be interesting when the pot heads in fu@#$ing Lotus Land get this stupid idea across.
Here in the Lower mainland, the inmates are taking over the asylum.
I do not, nor have I ever smoked marijuana nor will I associate with anyone who does and I am totally against legalizing the shit, but if they do, I firmly believe that marijuana is a mind altering drug and therefore anyone who smokes it and then tries to fly an airplane is doing something illegal and jepordising the safety of the travelling public.
It is exactly the same as trying to fly drunk. There is no difference.
If I suspected my co-pilot smoked a joint prior to flight, I would request another pilot and when I got a replacement, I would leave him behind.
His next step would be to be fired, if I had anything to say about it.
It is going to be interesting when the pot heads in fu@#$ing Lotus Land get this stupid idea across.
Here in the Lower mainland, the inmates are taking over the asylum.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
Just want to remind weveryone of the altered service ceiling for people who smoke. I know for a fact when I hire I take it into account for the mission expected. People who smoke can not go as high for as long and the night vision is also lowered.
As far as pot well if someone is that stuped as to not expect bad results I hope they are not carrying passengers when they have problems.
As far as pot well if someone is that stuped as to not expect bad results I hope they are not carrying passengers when they have problems.
I wish I could spell
I thought I was a pretty radical anti-smoker until I read your post S&J! I don't think I'd put smokers in the same category as "slashers." Rather, they are drug addicts addicted to the legal drug nicotine. Victims of peer pressure, marketing by tobacco companies, or exposure to smoking by their parents. I also read a study some years ago that estimated smokers cost the health care system less than non-smokers in the long run. The reason; they die many years sooner of coronary heart disease, cancer, emphazema, etc, etc. You don't see too many smokers sitting in extended care facilities with alzheimers and other long term ailments of the aged.
Poor buggers.
Poor buggers.
Maybe they just don't want to sit next to someone that smells like a dirty f#$cking ashtray? That week-old cigarette smell does wonders for making a day seem REALLY long.
If you want to smoke, that's your business. If you want to smell like a dirty f@$cking ashtray and sit close to me, well, that's my business. Maybe they should have asked if the applicants were just generally smelly or not.
Or maybe it's discrimination, just like everything else in this overly PC world. It's funny how we can discriminate against some addicts but not against others...isn't it? I can see it now...discrimination lawsuits for the guy who didn't get hired cause his forearm looked like a frickin' pincushion.
If smoking is getting in the way of your career...quit.
Pugster
If you want to smoke, that's your business. If you want to smell like a dirty f@$cking ashtray and sit close to me, well, that's my business. Maybe they should have asked if the applicants were just generally smelly or not.
Or maybe it's discrimination, just like everything else in this overly PC world. It's funny how we can discriminate against some addicts but not against others...isn't it? I can see it now...discrimination lawsuits for the guy who didn't get hired cause his forearm looked like a frickin' pincushion.
If smoking is getting in the way of your career...quit.
Pugster
S & J ...
Wow, sounds like you could use a smoke... that was quite a rant. If we are going to exclude any prospective employee based on their risk taking behavior, then this industry will finally undergo the "shortage" the schools talk about.
People whining about how much smokers cost to care for in their later years obviously never considered the problem with the fatties. Until you are willing to take your little battle to the overweight and obese, your credibility cannot be taken seriously. There are many pilots out there who are fat and stressed (what? pilots stressed?), who are doing just as much damage as any dedicated smoker.
Oh yeah. Pugster: the smell of a smoker is so offensive that you make it "your business"? Ever walk behind an airplane that's running? Ever smell some of your passengers? Please. (note: I am not justifying blowing smoke at people, or smoking around kids).
Some of the hardest working and most skilled pilots I have ever met have been smokers. I would rather fly with them than some health nut who smells like roses.
This topic has come up before, and as long as smokes cost more than $80 per carton (in MB), those who smoke don't owe you anything.
Wow, sounds like you could use a smoke... that was quite a rant. If we are going to exclude any prospective employee based on their risk taking behavior, then this industry will finally undergo the "shortage" the schools talk about.
People whining about how much smokers cost to care for in their later years obviously never considered the problem with the fatties. Until you are willing to take your little battle to the overweight and obese, your credibility cannot be taken seriously. There are many pilots out there who are fat and stressed (what? pilots stressed?), who are doing just as much damage as any dedicated smoker.
Oh yeah. Pugster: the smell of a smoker is so offensive that you make it "your business"? Ever walk behind an airplane that's running? Ever smell some of your passengers? Please. (note: I am not justifying blowing smoke at people, or smoking around kids).
Some of the hardest working and most skilled pilots I have ever met have been smokers. I would rather fly with them than some health nut who smells like roses.
This topic has come up before, and as long as smokes cost more than $80 per carton (in MB), those who smoke don't owe you anything.
Ex-military.. Woohooo...RFN wrote: Some of the hardest working and most skilled pilots I have ever met have been smokers.
I would rather fly with them than some health nut who smells like roses.
as long as smokes cost more than $80 per carton (in MB), those who smoke don't owe you anything.
LoL
Lol, go visit the reserves.. Cartons are 35(in Ontario atleast) and they were 30 before McGuinty raised the price. *free plug for the reserves*
Suprisingly, it's illegal to resell them, oops..
Smokers enjoy smoking, it gives them pleasure.
Second hand smoke is the by-product of a smoker's pleasure.
I don't smoke, but it still gets in my hair and clothes, face and nose.
I like to drink beer, it gives me pleasure.
Urine is the by-product of my pleasure.
Perhaps I should drink some beer, stand on a chair, and piss on the hair and clothes, and in the face and nose of the smokers.
Perhaps then smokers will appreciate how their second hand smoke feels to me!
Second hand smoke is the by-product of a smoker's pleasure.
I don't smoke, but it still gets in my hair and clothes, face and nose.
I like to drink beer, it gives me pleasure.
Urine is the by-product of my pleasure.
Perhaps I should drink some beer, stand on a chair, and piss on the hair and clothes, and in the face and nose of the smokers.
Perhaps then smokers will appreciate how their second hand smoke feels to me!
Wilbur,
As I mentioned in my previous post, I certainly do not condone smoking in such a way as to deliberately scar the purity of the holier-than-thou non-smoker.
Those smokers who do this are offensive, I agree. Anyone who deliberately goes out to irritate people is a prick, plain and simple, but I argue that they were pricks before they started smoking and if they ever quit they will be pricks after.
On the other hand, if you can't abide the smell of smoke on your clothes or in your hair then you have an easy choice; avoid the people and places that cause this to occur. While you're at it I assume that you will call your boss and refuse to haul fuel, fish, fried chicken, moose meat ect. as these will of course also end up making your clothes and hair stink (after I hauled fish once I had to thow out my clothes).
Time to find something real to whine about.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I certainly do not condone smoking in such a way as to deliberately scar the purity of the holier-than-thou non-smoker.
Those smokers who do this are offensive, I agree. Anyone who deliberately goes out to irritate people is a prick, plain and simple, but I argue that they were pricks before they started smoking and if they ever quit they will be pricks after.
On the other hand, if you can't abide the smell of smoke on your clothes or in your hair then you have an easy choice; avoid the people and places that cause this to occur. While you're at it I assume that you will call your boss and refuse to haul fuel, fish, fried chicken, moose meat ect. as these will of course also end up making your clothes and hair stink (after I hauled fish once I had to thow out my clothes).
Time to find something real to whine about.
Last edited by RFN on Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
