Industry shortage?

KISS_MY_TCAS · Post by **KISS_MY_TCAS** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:02 am

We are having a hell of a time finding an AME with 5+ years experience, and have heard of other operators fighting the same struggle. How widespread is this problem? Anyone else short-handed and struggling to find qualified AMEs?

tellyourkidstogetarealjob · Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:12 am

There's people available. There just aren't people available for free.

Plus, it's cheaper to work your existing staff to death and wring your hands and moan about the labour shortage than to hire someone new.

Basically, you pay them less than a living wage so they become dependent on overtime. At any sign of dissent threaten to cut off overtime. As a group we're not too smart so it works every time - just like Pavlov's dogs.

It's all taken from a Progressive Management textbook printed in 1842.

The bright AME's have long since gone to other industries during the current economic upswing.

plainfixer · Post by **plainfixer** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:48 am

There are heaps of AME's out there.
It comes down to the wage/salary everytime.
You get what you pay for.

Meecka · Post by **Meecka** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:24 am

As far as I can tell there is no industry shortage. Lots of AME's out there, just that like me, they ONLY have 3 years with a licence, or perhaps a bit less. Not the mighty 5 plus... those guys are all taken. Anything under that 5 years doesn't apparently mean squat, I guess were just overpayed apprentices.

040hurts · Post by **040hurts** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:28 am

If they took away my overtime I would be below the poverty line

log sheet · Post by **log sheet** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:32 pm

PAY IT AND THEY WILL COME

Just

ing you!

Same where we are! Any one getting a "decent paying job" is reluctant to move! Now if companies would only realize that it wouldn't be hard to get guy's/Gal's and keep them!
Cheers!

If it's got wings · Post by **If it's got wings** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 pm

I think there is not necessarly a shortage of engineers, but quality engineers who are worth what they are asking are few and far between. We've had more than our share of engineers who I had to remind how to time a magneto and explain how a free turbine works, these guys were not green engineers, all had more than 5 years experience and were making more than $28 an hour and were asking for $32 to $35 an hour. These same guys continually do not fill out the paper work correctly wrong pn's wrong wo numbers costing more in time to correct and fix not to mention the customer no getting billed correctly. We ve been willing to pay guys that step up to the plate and make an effort to be team players, but have no time for slacker who are looking to just fill time and collect a pay check, then complain because they figure they could make more in the oil patch. Yes you will make more in McMurray, but work here and you will be home just about every night, work in a decent hangar, and not work a pile of overtime unless you are looking for it. We slowly trying to up wages without running the company into the ground there is my rant

YYC Apprentice · Post by **YYC Apprentice** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:23 pm

As a guy just starting out in this industy, i do find it hard to swallow when my friends inform me how much more they are making working as a automotive mechanic, or as a constuction laborer. However, i take a certin amount of pride in what i do and am willing to work hard and long hours to complete the task, and my company has rewarded me and has made obvious efforts to make me stay. Sure i could be making more, somewhere else, but i make enough to live comfortably and still fuel my Snap-On addiction. I cant complain, but my friends sure do, so im sure wherever you go regardless of the industy you are always gonna want more money.

I aint never seen a hearse towing a u-haul

But as for the original post, i cant comment intellegently on the shortage of + 5 year guys, but i can tell you that out of my SAIT class of 35 about 10 are in aviation

log sheet · Post by **log sheet** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:19 pm

I have been working in aviation only for the last 11 yrs. There are a lot of guys on here with way more experience than me. In that time I have seen the wages increase quite a bit. 11yrs ago the most senior engineer was making about 18 bucks/hour ,now it's more like 30 and it'll keep climbing. That's a pretty good increase! Human nature is to want more to have a better life! I hope that doesn't change for anybody! Why settle for good enough!
Of course depending on the company size there is a limit to what they can pay without going broke!
The longer however companies keep their emloyees happy the longer they typically stick around. The longer people stick around and work on a certain type of A/C the more qualified on that A/C they become!
Take a guy that worked on Turboprop A/C all his career and put him in a piston A/C which he has never touched M1 or not, He/she is an apprentice again!

chubbee · Post by **chubbee** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:54 pm

There must be a shortage of "E"'s at least or AMO's could not justify bringing in overseas work visa staff to fill AME positions (in the same city where AC just laid off so many AME's).

log sheet · Post by **log sheet** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:08 pm

Stats last updated: 2007-07-24 00:00:03

NCR ATL QC BC PNR (MB and SK) PNR (AB) ON Totals

M1 21 112 324 492 250 480 514 2193
M2 27 163 905 747 112 304 773 3031
E 10 91 459 383 91 201 432 1667
S 2 39 226 440 105 237 115 1164
Balloons 0 0 4 0 1 3 3 11
M1 and M2 36 417 948 1424 504 1132 1486 5947
M1 and E 0 2 2 7 1 4 8 24
M1 and S 1 7 24 61 27 35 54 209
M2 and E 1 12 25 13 1 10 23 85
M2 and S 1 3 10 12 0 5 4 35
M1, M2 and Balloons 0 1 5 1 3 4 1 15
M1, E and Balloons 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
M1, S and Balloons 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1
M2, E and Balloons 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
M2, S and Balloons 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14382

These are the #'s of active AME'S and Ratings Currently held taken from TC website.

ad81 · Post by **ad81** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:57 pm

I've seen my fair share of good ame's leave the biz in the last year or so. The main reason is the amount of money paid compared to the crap one has to deal with on the job. Myself I'm getting tired of going above and beyond only to get told my pay is above par, which is crap since I don't know any other SKILLED tradesman that work for as little as I do.

Meecka · Post by **Meecka** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:29 am

My employer tells me that the industry standard pay for an AME M1 Working in a medium sized shop is 18 to 24 dollars an hour.... And that my being payed 20.50 an hour (been licenced 3 years, been at the company for 3 years as well), is pretty good. Any thoughts folks... I'm more interested in what the industry standard for pay REALY is...

plainfixer · Post by **plainfixer** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:37 am

The industry standard is: What you accept.
The people who decide what your pay will be, is decided by someone with no technical back ground who spoke to a buddy with no technical back ground and they agreed to pay that rate over some beers last summer.
The more people that refuse to work for the crap/par wage, the better.
Then you will see "Industry Standard go up".

log sheet · Post by **log sheet** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:17 pm

Meecka leave!

qa guy · Post by **qa guy** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:42 pm

you need to go in to your boss' office and demand a $5 raise. If he says no, there are lots of jobs out there. In the last six years, wages froze,(because of 9/11) its the whole supply and demand thing. However, fortunately for us, the industry is booming, there are lots of jobs which pay well. This is our chance to bring up the standard wage, but we have to take action. You must be willing to leave if he refuses! If you are worth it your employer should pay it. I did, and I now make $27........and that in GA 8-4:30 mon-fri baby! licensed in 04!

Kandoo · Post by **Kandoo** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:03 pm

I have not seen this much demand for Ame’s in my 12 years in the industry. Go for the money and the industry wages should follow as employers have a hard time attracting or retaining people. This is starting to happen now. The wages will come up. I have been unemployed on a few occasions and chasing jobs around this country for 12 years. Been told I’m lucky to have a job and the door isn’t locked if I don’t like it. Now I can pick and choose so I’m going where the money is!

If it's got wings · Post by **If it's got wings** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:32 pm

plainfixer wrote:The industry standard is: What you accept.
The people who decide what your pay will be, is decided by someone with no technical back ground who spoke to a buddy with no technical back ground and they agreed to pay that rate over some beers last summer.
The more people that refuse to work for the crap/par wage, the better.
Then you will see "Industry Standard go up".

This is not always the case I am the production manager, still wrench on the floor, and am part of the dicussion to set payscale. I would hope I have a reasonable grasp on technical side of fixing aircraft (over 8 years in the industry, small GA throught corporate), we don't necessarly pay the same as the large corporate flight departments with unlimited budget, but I have seen my fair share of these companies change board of directors and have there flight department shut down. I know if I work hard get paid a wage I can live on comfortable, I won't get rich quick, but I will have a job tomorrow, next week, and next year!

I continue to say that a fare wage for a fare days work. If you think you are worth more than you are being paid ask for the raise if you really are worth that a good employer will at the very least counter offer, if they don't up your wage then either your not worth it to them or they aren't worth working for. Either way if your not happy, stop complaining and leave, nobody likes a whiner, we are look for people to get the job done! It will be great if the industry standard goes up, then we can all go and fight over the hand full of $75 dollar an hour jobs, when most AMO's shut down because no one can afford to pay us on the amount of business that is available.

Kandoo · Post by **Kandoo** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:10 pm

If it's got wings
“It will be great if the industry standard goes up, then we can all go and fight over the hand full of $75 dollar an hour jobs, when most AMO's shut down because no one can afford to pay us on the amount of business that is available.”
I call bullshit on that!! If gas went up to $2.00 a liter tomorrow would everyone stop driving, NO! That is fear mongering and management pushes it all the time.

Fox 3 · Post by **Fox 3** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:22 pm

KISS_MY_TCAS wrote:We are having a hell of a time finding an AME with 5+ years experience, and have heard of other operators fighting the same struggle. How widespread is this problem? Anyone else short-handed and struggling to find qualified AMEs?

My situation exactly.

If it's got wings wrote:I think there is not necessarly a shortage of engineers, but quality engineers who are worth what they are asking are few and far between. We've had more than our share of engineers who I had to remind how to time a magneto and explain how a free turbine works, these guys were not green engineers, all had more than 5 years experience and were making more than $28 an hour and were asking for $32 to $35 an hour. These same guys continually do not fill out the paper work correctly wrong pn's wrong wo numbers costing more in time to correct and fix not to mention the customer no getting billed correctly. We ve been willing to pay guys that step up to the plate and make an effort to be team players, but have no time for slacker who are looking to just fill time and collect a pay check, then complain because they figure they could make more in the oil patch.

I've seen the exact same results, a lot of people figure because they have a license the are automatically entitled to the higher wage but have no skill or a desire to work for it.

We are hiring right now as well, I will be happy if I receive a half a dozen resumes in total.

Good Luck.

~FOX~

Fox 3 · Post by **Fox 3** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:37 pm

Meecka wrote:My employer tells me that the industry standard pay for an AME M1 Working in a medium sized shop is 18 to 24 dollars an hour.... And that my being payed 20.50 an hour (been licenced 3 years, been at the company for 3 years as well), is pretty good.

That place hasn't changed one bit. The only good thing is that the area is awesome and being a stone's throw from the lake is something I really miss.

Meecka wrote:Any thoughts folks... I'm more interested in what the industry standard for pay REALY is...

I think industry pay is different depending on where you go. Right now the west, specifically Alberta, is in major need of skilled trades people and are willing to pay more then somewhere like the east coast. There have been a few polls conducted on here, one by myself and one by (gigity-gigity) KISS MY TCAS.

Mine:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 549#212549

TCAS:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... highlight=

~FOX~

If it's got wings · Post by **If it's got wings** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:09 pm

Kandoo wrote:If it's got wings
“It will be great if the industry standard goes up, then we can all go and fight over the hand full of $75 dollar an hour jobs, when most AMO's shut down because no one can afford to pay us on the amount of business that is available.”
I call bullshit on that!! If gas went up to $2.00 a liter tomorrow would everyone stop driving, NO! That is fear mongering and management pushes it all the time.

I did not say all AMO's would close I said most. As gas prices rise not everyone will stop driving, but I sold my gas guzzler and bought a civic because i couldn't afford to put gas in it. As more and more owners of aircraft can"t afforded it there will be few jobs. I did not mean that there would no jobs just there would be fewer of them, but then again if all the whiners leave the industry I guess I have nothing to worry about

speedtape · Post by **speedtape** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:12 pm

Good time to be in aviation right now. In a few years things could be a lot different if the up and down trend continues for aviation in this country.

tellyourkidstogetarealjob · Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:26 am

If it's got wings,

Your trouble may have something to do with your location. Calgary's not exactly cheap and rental units are in short supply.

You're basically limited to supply on hand because few could afford to move there to take a job.

Sooner or later the economy will tank and you'll have all the help you can wish for.

Meecka,

If you've been accepting that for three years you're very patient. But if your schedule is good, town is good, and job is fun maybe it's worth staying.

Otherwise, the industry in general is still hoping to get something for nothing and paying poorly.

With all the oilfield work in Alberta why aren't pay rates substantially above national average instead of just a little, and not nearly enough to offset the cost of living there?

The sacrifices made to fix aircraft :
- night shifts
- erratic shifts
- holidays any time you want as long as it's not summer, fall, spring, or Christmas
- moving frequently which makes it hard for a spouse to have a meaningful career thereby making you prime earner

just aren't worth the current going wage.

Until the industry realizes this cost has to be passed on to the customer it'll continue to have staffing problems.

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:46 am

Meecka wrote:My employer tells me that the industry standard pay for an AME M1 Working in a medium sized shop is 18 to 24 dollars an hour.... And that my being payed 20.50 an hour (been licenced 3 years, been at the company for 3 years as well), is pretty good. Any thoughts folks... I'm more interested in what the industry standard for pay REALY is...

PM me, we are looking and pay a lot better than that.. Good shift with good equipment. We have apprentices making way more than you and we are in civilisation.

Look forward to hearing from you..

Cheers.

Industry shortage?

Industry shortage?

Re: Industry shortage?