There has been alot of discussion lately regarding VAL's requirement for $$$ upfront. Just wondering if this has changed? It appears they've changed their required total time for FO's. 500 TT & CPL only - the website still shows 1000TT. More companies are lowering their mins...is this a trend we'll see more of for the next 1..2...3........years??

Sure wouldn't want to be strapped to a "number 9" with a 2000 hour wonder at the helm......flame away.

Is 500 the minimum for an FO onboard any provincial air ambulance aircraft? Do the different provinces have different requirements???

Doc wrote:Sure wouldn't want to be strapped to a "number 9" with a 2000 hour wonder at the helm......flame away.

hate to say it doc but they cut me loose with little more than that. Haven't killed anyone yet!

Oh and I took a call from VAL the other day ( applied for an overseas DASH job) and they still require $$ up front or so the HR lady said..

But, your background is a little different than most. You've flown with the best! We know you're "special"!
Hope you told the HR lady.."thanks, but no..."

I am embarrassed to say that I applied for this job.
I am not embarrassed to say that if I am asked to pay money up front, I will turn it down.

Now how come they can get away with these low minimums while Thunder screams for 1500 hour F/Os with 500 multi?

No upgrade for you.....4 YEARS!

lol

Bob...you will be asked for money up front. My info is real current.
Thunder wants guys to upgrade quick. Don't know why, really? I'd be hiring the lowest time guys I could get....they'd stay at least a year. A 1500 hour guy will be on the first bus out of YQT....but they just don't listen.

Doc wrote:Bob...you will be asked for money up front. My info is real current.
Thunder wants guys to upgrade quick. Don't know why, really? I'd be hiring the lowest time guys I could get....they'd stay at least a year. A 1500 hour guy will be on the first bus out of YQT....but they just don't listen.

Well that just shows them how messed up the whole system is from both Thunder's side and VAL. I'm still relatively young (under 30), have 1000 hours and have no real fancy for airline flying. I would have no trouble signing a 2-year promissary note if thunder called or VAL called, or anyone else that is reputable. But if VAL or anyone else wanting money up front calls, of course I will tell them to cram it sideways with walnuts.

I gather I am not the only one with this stance. Is anyone listening out there? They complain about pilots leaving but won't give the guys willing to stay even mediocre conditions to sign on.

I'll go unemployed before I pay you guys to fly, anyone hear that?

Well Bab.....the problem with you is that you have no ambition.......i dont believe this but when they ask you where you see yourself in five years, it seems they want you to say air canada.....I dont know why

The problem is there will be that guy with 500TT that will put that money up front for training.... but us guys with a bit more time lets say between 1000 and 2000 aren't willing to do that. I think its rediculous that someone with that much time should be asked for money up front. What a slap in the face. I've worked so hard to almost get myself out of debt after paying for my initial training and they would ask me to go in debt for more? Forget it...

I'd like to see ALL companies that ask for money up front go TITS UP! Got my wish with JetsGo! But, you're right, there will alway be morons willing to "buy" jobs. Too bad really, because they really don't have to.

there will alway be morons willing to "buy" jobs

I have no problem signing a promisary note for a reasonable term becuase I understand that if your constantly training new people it can get expensive. It can get really expensive if you stay there for about six months and f off to some other place.

but money up front is almost like a gurantee you'll leave after your time is up... you feel like you owe them absolutely no loyalty. If they don't want to show trust in you why should I give anything in return.

What do you think about that?

Thunder screams for 500 MPIC because as soon as you are safe by their standards to go skipper on the MU-2, you will be upgraded. They need captains yesterday. If you have the time, Thunder is a WAY better option than Voyageur.

Thunder IS a way better way to go than VAL. For sure. But, they have yet to worry about recurrent training. The same folks you speak of with 500 MPIC, tend to "bug out" the moment their year is up!
Long term, the way things are going, they will have to find a way to keep pilots around. Nobody can afford to train a whole new batch of pilots every year! Paying pilots WELL is FAR cheaper than hiring new ones every year. But I don't think they get it.

I think they're starting to get it, because they are starting to offer more money and incentives.

Cap'n P8 wrote:I think they're starting to get it, because they are starting to offer more money and incentives.

how much more? any info?

They are NOT getting it, because they still want money up front! And, if YOU think they're getting it....then YOU aren't getting it!

there are a few companies starting to get it... I can think of few one in particular in alberta

Put your cap lock on hold there dilwad. I said they're moving in the right direction.

any info on the new pay scale @VAL ????

Doc, you have a good point.
Why should we have to put $$$ upfront? Well my men, how would you feel if you gave everyone the same opportunity to come into your company, train them only to have each one move onto another company? There goes your investment.... out the door.
Perhaps you should look at it in a different way, more like putting down a security deposit to hold your spot. The cost for your training is MUCH more than the amount they ask from you, trust me! I think it's a reasonable amount, besides.... after 1 year you get it ALL back plus the interest rate of a GIC.
Good luck and happy trails!

FlightFX wrote: Perhaps you should look at it in a different way, more like putting down a security deposit to hold your spot.

Oh Boy...

Why on earth would you need to put a security deposit to hold your spot ??????

FlightFX wrote: besides.... after 1 year you get it ALL back plus the interest rate of a GIC.
Good luck and happy trails!

Tell that to Jetsgone pilots... and all the other crappy places that went tits ups.


Calisse (pardon my french), I can't understand why you guys don't get it... by accepting to pay money up front... YOU ARE SCREWING YOURSELF and everybody else in the industry.

OK.... Benwa, you've never owned your own company and had guys repeatedly use you for your training only to piss off and go some where else after they assured you of their word they'd sick around for a FULL year.
Now, what would you do in that position, how would you get guys to stay in that seat? More money? What if you don't have more to give?
Avaiation is not a money maker, go play in the stocks if you want to get rich quick!