Air Canada, WestJet drop fares

sanjet · Post by **sanjet** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:02 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-l ... stjet.html

Rival airlines Air Canada and WestJet are lowering their fares to $48 for travel between Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal.

Hmmm....

sprucemonkey · Post by **sprucemonkey** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:02 pm

Thats gonna kick Porter in the gonads......

Monday, Sep 10, 2007
Flight# Depart Arrive Firm Flexible Freedom
245
07:00 08:00 $218 $248 $328
247
08:30 09:30 $218 $248 $328
249
10:00 11:00 $192 $222 $302
251
11:30 12:30 $192 $222 $302
253
13:00 14:00 $152 $182 $262
255
14:30 15:30 $192 $222 $302
257
16:00 17:00 $192 $222 $302
259
17:30 18:30 $192 $222 $302
261
19:30 20:30 $218 $248 $328
263
21:30 22:30 $192 $222 $302

pointyertoes · Post by **pointyertoes** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:34 am

sprucemonkey wrote:Thats gonna kick Porter in the gonads......

Believe me, no one is too concerned with AC or WJ fares at Porter.
Their predatory pricing is both amusing and flattering in way.
For whatever reason more and more people are willing to pay more to fly with us...

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:07 am

Predatory..

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:46 am

Michel Leblanc must be haunting people in his dreams or something.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:30 am

Deluce is just talking. If it truly was predatory pricing, he'd already be suing.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:47 am

Four1oh wrote:Deluce is just talking. If it truly was predatory pricing, he'd already be suing.

I'm not sure he ever could anyway, WJA/AC service from YYZ-YOW/YUL

Porter operates from a different airport, thus different service.

And just to keep this thread from becoming a boring financial argument

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ed8_1189365556

sanjet · Post by **sanjet** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:04 pm

That triangle is the one of the most lucrative market. Won't be surprised to see good revenue drop for WJ/AC in the next financial report if they keep this up...

pointyertoes · Post by **pointyertoes** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:54 pm

Four1oh wrote:Deluce is just talking. If it truly was predatory pricing, he'd already be suing.

..."predatory pricing" are my words not his. Like I said, no one at Porter is too concerned. It's just standard practice in the industry and we fully expect it.

...and by the way, for those of you quick to jump on the Q400 bashing bandwagon after what happened to SAS, do some research on systemic maintenance problems for other common a/c types like the 737 or A320 series then compare again. Every airplane and airline has their unique gremlins, though some are more public than others... and some manufacturers are powerful enough to suppress any criticism of their respective designs.

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:13 pm

That triangle is the one of the most lucrative market. Won't be surprised to see good revenue drop for WJ/AC in the next financial report if they keep this up...

On an ASM basis, the triangle represents a very small portion of both AC and WS's network. I hardly think either are going to see a "good revenue drop".

sanjet · Post by **sanjet** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:53 pm

CanadaEH wrote: On an ASM basis, the triangle represents a very small portion of both AC and WS's network. I hardly think either are going to see a "good revenue drop".

True enough, I may have exagerated that fact a little. But when you have over 60 jet flights operating within that route, from A320's to 777's. You know it's hurting!

stupido · Post by **stupido** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:46 pm

Ooooppss...!!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WD-bcocienM

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:16 am

For the record sanjet, I love the Q

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:02 pm

sanjet wrote:
CanadaEH wrote: On an ASM basis, the triangle represents a very small portion of both AC and WS's network. I hardly think either are going to see a "good revenue drop".
True enough, I may have exagerated that fact a little. But when you have over 60 jet flights operating within that route, from A320's to 777's. You know it's hurting!

I suspect AC still gets long haul flow off of the triangle. The local market will take a yield hit but throwing in the seasonal slump from now to Christmas, lower prices may stimulate some demand.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:06 am

All I can say is, I hope no-one was sitting in that seat

As a precautionary measure, Bombardier and Goodrich, the landing gear manufacturer, recommend in an All Operator Message (AOM) that operators of Q400 aircraft having accumulated more than 10,000 landing gear cycles (a cycle is one take-off and landing), be grounded until an inspection of the landing gear is carried out.

Bombardier has delivered more than 160 Q400 aircraft to airlines around the world, of these there are currently about 60 Q400 aircraft with more than 10,000 landing gear cycles.

Transport Canada (TC) has been briefed on these recent events and Bombardier is working with TC to establish the requirement for further corrective actions, if required.

A Bombardier Air Safety representative has been dispatched to the second incident site to provide assistance to the investigating authorities. Until such time as investigations are concluded by the relevant aviation authorities, Bombardier cannot speculate or comment as to the cause of these incidents.

Does this affect Porter yet?

pointyertoes · Post by **pointyertoes** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:45 am

... as per my reply to the same question in the general forum...

The grounding and inspection order from Bombardier affects only early serial a/c with more than 10000 cycles on them.

Our airplanes have been inspected, even though they do not have anywhere close to 10000 cycles on them.

So far, from my experience, the Q400 has been more reliable than any other type I've flown.

Valhalla · Post by **Valhalla** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:58 am

sprucemonkey wrote:Thats gonna kick Porter in the gonads......

Don't be so proud of Westjet and Air Canada's cheap airfare. The practice of predatory pricing is a reality in our industry, and at the end of the day, the employees pay the real price by having to accept lower wages and decreased benefits. It's the reason we as pilots get paid less than bus drivers.

But, if you're going to compare prices, you should be looking at what Air Canada charges for a business class ticket to Ottawa and Montreal. Porters is all business class style full service with increased leg room, business lounge in Toronto and complimentory drinks and meal onboard.

The typical passenger at Porter don't want to have toilet paper races down the isles or deal with paying $5 for a sandwich and doesn't have time to show up at least 1 hour prior to the flight at Pearson. If you don't believe me, I would invite you to check out the lounge at YTZ. At any given time, it's 90% suits in there.

And this is also why Porter business plan is successful. The only alternative to Air Canada's business class for domesic travel is Porter. When everyone is else is going budget, Porter is going up-scale. And granted, the majority of Canadians will fly at the absolute cheapest fare, but there are still those who will fill Porter's smaller planes at a higher ticket price. It's happening in spite of airfare that is cheaper than the cab ride to Pearson from downtown, is the reason why Porter will not match Air Canada and Westjet's cheap budget fare.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:09 am

Give your head a shake! There hasn't been a toilet paper race at Westjet in 4 years!

pointyertoes · Post by **pointyertoes** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:30 am

Four1oh wrote:Give your head a shake! There hasn't been a toilet paper race at Westjet in 4 years!

...the wasted tp must have been affecting the profit sharing plan...

..have you guys thought about about charging 10 cents a toilet paper square? Maybe you could drop the YYZ-YUL fare down to $5.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:35 am

How about you give me your name, and I'll put in a recommend for ya!

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:37 am

When everyone is else is going budget, Porter is going up-scale.

Harmony went up-scale and at the end of the day people wanted cheap tickets. You might carve out a niche serving YTZ without any competition, but once another airline steps in and serves it (although I don't see anyone forking over a lot of money to build a terminal..

) with a much larger network and a FF program you can bet that'll eat into your profits and revenue.

..have you guys thought about about charging 10 cents a toilet paper square? Maybe you could drop the YYZ-YUL fare down to $5.

So who's getting you all riled up about the ticket prices being offered by AC and WS?

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:13 pm

sanjet · Post by **sanjet** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:53 pm

Thks invertedattitude, those pics will really help this discussion on the $48 fare within the triangle.

The niche market is there for Porter. If they can maintain good service with OTP instead of cxling flights because of low loads. Their yields will only increase.

pointyertoes · Post by **pointyertoes** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:10 pm

sanjet wrote:The niche market is there for Porter. If they can maintain good service with OTP instead of cxling flights because of low loads...

You must know something we don't. The loads are great and we've never cancelled because of light loads.

windshear · Post by **windshear** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:17 pm

I know a few people who have flown Porter and they love the service, lounge, convenience...... But, last winter those same people were diverted to YYZ when they couldn't get into YTZ because of Wx. Unfortunately, a few of them are reluctant to fly with Porter again when the Wx looks "iffy". What are the Minimums for the island 350'-400'?