Priority Medivac

185_guy · Post by **185_guy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:41 am

I was wondering if someone who flies medivac could explain the difference between being a priority medivac, and just a medivac.
I've heard this several times, where ATC asks the guys if they need priority handling. I thought that was the point of saying you are a medivac.....you need priority handling!!!!
It just seems like it could take away from the importance of the word medivac....once we get up north away from atc, i think it would sound foolish for me to ask you if you need to land first, but why should we waste our time letting you go first if you don't really need to??!!!!
Not sure if this is a Manitoba thing??

furious george · Post by **furious george** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:33 am

Here we go again...
A medevac is a medevac is a medevac.
Have been asked before "Are you a priority medevac?" Obviously people have been abusing the status for ATC to be asking. Guys around here have many interpretations but I think it's just a matter of simple common sense and professionalism.

Cheers

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:45 am

Please, not AGAIN!

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:29 am

Kinda like seeing an ambulance just driving and one with it's lights/sirens on. That priority can and does change depending on what is going on in the back. Sometimes a person has a hangnail, other times that person is on the verge of death. Some medevacs require priority handling, others do not.
Lets not get into a slamming thread on who calls themselves what. That may be one of your loved ones in the back someday, and yes you would want them to have priority.

app flap · Post by **app flap** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:43 am

good call KAG.

the only time i've heard ATC ask 'are you a priority medevac?' is when theres more than one medevac coming in at the same time. i'm guessing so they can let whoever says their priority in first. you can usually tell if your patient is priority or not just by looking at them, or the nurse will tell you.

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:56 am

You medivac?

pause....

errrrr, ya, errrrr, we are.

185_guy · Post by **185_guy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:58 am

Sorry to open old wounds....dident mean to start a mud flinging!!

It just seemed odd to me that ATC was asking a medivac if they needed priority handling. I was under the impression that if you used medivac in your callsign, you want priority handling (for whatever reason....hangnails included)
The few times I have heard this on the radio the a/c said they did not need priority handling, but continued to use medivac in their callsign. Just seemed odd to me......

If i knew anyone who flew medivac i would have asked them instead of here.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:13 am

When they ask me if I need priority handling, I respond with 'we are a Medevac sir' No need in having multiple definitions for the same word.

And if they want to vector us all over the bloody place for spacing for other machine to land first, well, that would depend on the status in the back. If the patient is green(stable), then I accept the routing change. If they are red(critical) then I request alternate routing/try to land without unnecessary delays.

The last thing I want on my conscience is someone dying in the back because of sh*t I was doing up front.

app flap · Post by **app flap** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:47 am

so basically what you're saying is that if you're a priority medevac (critical)... you'd request priority.

and if you weren't priority (stable), you wouldn't request priority.

stopsquawk · Post by **stopsquawk** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:03 am

There was a thread a little while ago discussing medevac flights using the medevac callsign routinely, even when they don't have patients on board. (dropping off medical personnel, eg). Maybe this was that controllers way of knowing if he should clear the skies, or treat the flight as routine.

goingmach_1 · Post by **goingmach_1** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:19 pm

Last time I posted a comment, somebody ragged all over me and I figured this is not a very friendly place. Hopefully not again.

For what it is worth I can pass along what it used to be like in Ontario.

Many moons ago (20yrs ago) I was a F/O on a DA-10 flying "Medivac" contracted to Ministry of Health Ontario. They'd call and we would respond. Their terms were priority one "1", which meant airborne in an hour or priority two "2" within 2 hours.

From my observations, the priority 1 stuff could, not always be life threathening. When launched priority 1 we would add "medivac" to our civil ident and ATC would repley "Medivac" as part of their readback.

I do not recall any written rules about this, but mostly Captains descretion. Seems to me if there is a seriously sick patient in the back then perhaps having "Medivac" status may help their situation.

On the same note, we sometimes added "code 4" to our civil ident when speaking to ATC. This was a message to them that the situation was life or death. We used that when doing the Muliple Organ Retrieval Program, (M.O.R.) It was stipulated by the Ontario Health dispatch. The ACT units in the USA knew about this as well.

We never used any other call sign additions when doing patient transfer or re-posistioning flights.

My "Medivac" flying was limited to Ontario Health contracts so I have no expierence with the other provinces.

Today I am a volunteer first responder, fire fighter, in a small town in Ontario, and we still use the priority 1 and 2 as directed by our dispatch. Priority 1 is lights and sierns, and priority 2 is no lights or sierns.

Hope it helps.

Ref Plus 10 · Post by **Ref Plus 10** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:03 pm

Not to be a thorn in everyone's side, but my belief is that if the attending doctor calling for the medevac, there's probably a good reason for it, whether it be reactionary or cautionary.

Those of you that fly up north realize as well that some medevacs can be questionable, but ours is not to question why, ours is but to simply fly.

Cheers

Youngback · Post by **Youngback** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:10 pm

Sometimes the doctor is just sending a patient out for services that aren't available in the patient's home town. This priority thing is pissing me off as well. Last week I was one of 2 medevacs inbound to the same airport with the same arrival time. The other plane declared absolute priority, medics in mine said if that was the case we could stand to wait a couple extra minutes. Well short final into the city, my patient went into Cardiac Arrest. On the ground, once the other planes medics found out what was going on, they offered to leave their "priority" patient to help us. It wasn't a positive outcome. Bottom line: Unless time is of the essence, you aren't a medevac. You might think its a cool tag or that your company saves money if you put that M on there., but someone's life may be lost if you abuse the system. It happened last week.

rd1331 · Post by **rd1331** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:47 pm

Well I hope the family of the person who died finds out and they sue the asses off the guys in the other airplane.

Medivac is supposed to be used for PRIORITY. Not because you had to pick someone up to go get there cast taken off. If you are a priority then by all means call yourself a medivac, if you are going to a call to pick a priority patient up, call yourself a medivac. If you are not one of the above i hope you get your ass sued off when someone else dies like above because you thought it was cool to call yourself a medivac.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:33 pm

Maybe someones got a baby dying in the back, someone else has a geezer with angina, another guy is empty on his way to pick up an organ for a transplant and someone else is on a patient transfer.

Some are more critical than others but they are all more important than the charter crew change, Westjet sched to Winnipeg or corporate jet holding short. Pretty tough to split hairs for priority when you have 2 medevac machines arriving at the same time - it is always someones kid/wife/brother/mom in the back, or waiting to get in the back, but it is the system we have... deal with it.

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:59 pm

To the original question.

It is mostly just a manitoba thing, for some reason if you are called for a medivac, weather it be a patient transfer for hemorrhoid's or a hang nail. For some reason in manitoba everyone flies medivac.

The bad part about that is now ATC knows this so when the real priority medivacs do come in, ATC now has to clarify if you actually are a medivac or just somebody abussing the system.

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:45 pm

fwiw, The two times I was a priority medevac I had the ambulance meet us on the taxiway. One time the patient made it.

Generally the look in the nurse's eyes'll let you know whether it's priority or not.

Youngback · Post by **Youngback** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:49 pm

In all fairness to the other crew who I have now talked to about the incident, they were a priority as well with a patient in the same condition as ours. I did not mean to imply that that crew was using it to sound cool or save money although I do know people in the industry who do. So in a case like that, someone has to give way. After hearing back from the medics and the hospital, there was nothing that could have been done to save our patient. Even having a cardiologist and a full surgical suite would not have helped. In any case though, it should highlight the importance of why you shouldn't abuse the tag.

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:21 pm

I always laugh when some Medivac pilot who's been putting in long hours and says blah blah medivac 911. oh uh sorry where actually not medivac.

Always some smart ass sitting next to me says "what did they die?"
never get tired of that.

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:28 pm

Twice I said it, and they were.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:43 pm

oh man, here we go again.

IMHO, and when I did fly medevac, there were 2 types of patients, a patient transfer, which was no priority at all, or very low risk, and then there were the 'barely stable but stable enough to medevac' patient. Those ranged from everything between a woman in labour and it's her 6th child, to a bleeder, or someone who just decided to 'crash' enroute, all which would put us in priority status.

2R · Post by 2R » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:48 am

Hey look there is a dog chasing it's tail again

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:51 am

bob sacamano wrote:You medivac?

pause....

errrrr, ya, errrrr, we are.

Maybe there's a pause because we know we have the medivac tag but we haven't been told by the nurse if we're prriority. We ask the nurse and then answer the question. Not my call nor have I made any false claims.

Well I hope the family of the person who died finds out and they sue the asses off the guys in the other airplane.

Sue the flight crew for taking priority over another plane? Yeah....

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:05 am

anyone else reminded of volunteer firemen?

confuzed · Post by **confuzed** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:45 am

ei ei owe wrote:Maybe there's a pause because we know we have the medivac tag but we haven't been told by the nurse if we're prriority. We ask the nurse and then answer the question. Not my call nor have I made any false claims. Well I hope the family of the person who died finds out and they sue the asses off the guys in the other airplane.

Isn't that the whole point of being deemed a MEDEVAC?? The term is used to advise the controlling agency that you require priority handling. This has been beaten to death for god knows how long, and some people just don't get it. It's almost pointless to try and explain it anymore. Just out of curiousity, why do you have the "medevac tag" if you don't need priority??