Province Demands Fees; Already regulated by Transport Canada, schools say
Jim Middlemiss, Financial Post
Published: Tuesday, September 18, 2007
Ontario government's plans to regulate flying schools under the Private Career Colleges Act is a "money grab" that will force schools to shut down or move jobs to neighbouring provinces, drive up the cost of training pilots and create unsafe conditions, says a spokesman for the fledgling association of Ontario Flight Training Providers (OFTP).
Stefan Corriveau, who operates the Algonquin Flight Centre in North Bay, said at least six of the province's 64 flight schools are closing and "probably another dozen to 15 will not be continuing vocational flight training."
He said the changes to the provincial regulation, which take effect today, will have a devastating impact on flight schools in Northern Ontario and smaller airports around the province where the schools usually operate and drive training to the larger, urban-based schools.
Tanya Blazina, a spokesperson for the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities, which oversees the act, says the province is aware of the flight schools' concerns about the new regulatory scheme and "the ministry is going to continue to work with the [schools.]"
She said the purpose of the act is to protect students from private schools and ensure they get the services they were promised.
Mr. Corriveau agreed that it's important to protect students, but said that it's regulatory overkill.
Ontario's 64 flight schools employ more than 1,000 people and are responsible for training one-third of the commercial pilots in Canada and 38% of the country's flight instructors. Ontario accounts for about 33% of the schools operating in Canada.
Mr. Corriveau said one study shows that one hour of flight time generates about $480 of economic activity, ranging from tuition, food and board to fuel and mechanical services.
Graduates usually start in smaller airlines and work their way up to bigger operations, such as WestJet and Air Canada.
The irony, Mr. Corriveau said, is that flight schools are already governed by federal regulation under Transport Canada, which certifies operators and sets the parameters of their licence and oversees the safety aspect of their operations.
Lucie Vignola, a spokesperson for Transport Canada, said "we are talking to the province right now" and the department is "getting a legal opinion" from Justice Canada lawyers. "Once we get some information from Justice we will be able to follow up."
Mr. Corriveau, who employs 15 people, said the province's move to regulate the schools as a private college comes into effect today; however, it's believed only three schools have registered to date so the majority of operators will likely be non-compliant and subject to fines ranging from $25,000 to $100,000 and a year in jail.
The new scheme will require flight centres to pay thousands of dollars in registration and annual fees and kick into the Training Completion Assurance Fund, which is designed to reimburse students when a private college in any industry collapses.
The province could only cite one instance of an Ontario flight school leaving students in the lurch and Mr. Corriveau said that was a scam. He said his industry relies on a pay-as-you-fly model, as opposed to large upfront tuition fees, and most operators are troubled at the prospect of paying for hair-styling schools and trucking schools that go bust.
Mr. Corriveau said registering his two programs will cost an initial fee of $1,760, plus $10,000 annually to the insurance fund (Flight school contributions are based on gross revenues.). He will also have to post a security bond of about $30,000. These amounts are far more than what he pays to the federal government in fees.
Moreover, he said many schools have been unable to find backers to post such bonds because they lack the business assets to back them. He said the ministry officials have told operators to "use your houses and personal assets" to secure the money.
"The cost side of it is definitely a big concern for us because schools don't generally operate on a huge profit margin. When we pay fees to the federal government we usually get something in return: we get our operating certificate. In the view of many flight schools in Ontario this is a money grab."
He said the province doesn't seem to understand the nature of flight training. The act requires schools to develop a contract between the students and the school, which he said "is a good idea." However, when he sent his proposed student contract to the government for comment, officials wanted him to define the hours of operation and scheduling.
The problem, he said, "is that we make schedules based on the anticipated weather conditions. Nobody can forecast that." A flight might be set for 9 a.m., but goes at 9 p.m.
As well, night rating means that schools must operate 24 hours a day. "They're trying to treat us like a regular 9-to-5 college, which we're not. They go about making the rules without consulting the industry."
Ms. Blazina said the Ministry is consulting with the industry and held a couple of training sessions with flight schools earlier this year.
As to the question about hours, she said private career colleges "must indicate the scheduled hours of instruction" in the student contract.
Mr. Corriveau said his big fear is that Ontario's initiative will result in a decline in safety standards. The provincial scheme is burdensome and requires much administrative oversight, he said. Most schools have limited staffing, which means that the time owners spend tending to provincial regulation is time taken away from overseeing safety and maintenance of the schools' airplanes.
The schools have asked for a one-year reprieve from today's deadline and more consultations to iron out the details and prepare for the monetary hit, but he said there has been no response.
Ms. Blazina said schools are required to register by today and the government is "committed to working with the flight-training units and helping them come into compliance with the act."
Already some schools have been approached by Quebec to move their operations there, Mr. Corriveau said.
British Columbia is the only other province that regulates flight schools and it is facing a lawsuit from local operators.
Mr. Corriveau said that oversight of flight schools is a federal responsibility and his group has also retained a lawyer to consider its options.
jmiddlemiss@nationalpost.com
Ontario Flying Schools Yell Mayday
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
Ontario Flying Schools Yell Mayday
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
I do agree that students who have money on account need to be better protected. It is Illegal as far as I know to spend money on account until it is "flown off". The money has to be kept in a separate account does it not? In my career I can remember 2 schools going under with student's money, and lots of it. Holding the owners of schools personally liable if they spend money that doesn't belong to them makes more sense to me. Can't hide behind your company kind of deal. But this seems to penalize everybody, especially those doing legit business. Do a little quick math and see how much money those fees will add up to in a few years. That account will be HUGE and you know it'll be invested and grow over time. At that rate the government will have a nice little nest egg to sit on for later.
As for hours of operation and schedules, anybody who has had the misfortune of getting laid off and attempted renew an IFR or instructor rating on pogey knows how confused the EI office gets when you try to explain how flight training works.
Change or make the laws stricter to protect students but adding another bureaucratic mess to the world, not again!! Gun registry anyone?
As for hours of operation and schedules, anybody who has had the misfortune of getting laid off and attempted renew an IFR or instructor rating on pogey knows how confused the EI office gets when you try to explain how flight training works.
Change or make the laws stricter to protect students but adding another bureaucratic mess to the world, not again!! Gun registry anyone?
I sure am happy about how my tax dollars are spent.
Does anyone else feel like they're living a Monty Python sketch?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Minist ... illy_Walks
Does anyone else feel like they're living a Monty Python sketch?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Minist ... illy_Walks
hey clunck - I'm really glad to be operating in Alberta right now, but if you guys need some help or support, let me know. Not sure what I can do, but PM me if you have any ideas. Flight training is a hard enough business to get by in without this type of insanity.
Have you talked with any of the other schools there?
What is this "group" of Mr Corriveau's or is it just a reporter thing?
Have you talked with any of the other schools there?
What is this "group" of Mr Corriveau's or is it just a reporter thing?
This kind of thing is so typically wrong-minded that it would be hard to believe if it wasn't actually happening.Mr. Corriveau said that oversight of flight schools is a federal responsibility and his group has also retained a lawyer to consider its options.
Being stupid around airplanes is a capital offence and nature is a hanging judge!
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
Mark Twain
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
Mark Twain
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Then you would need to setup a sat. site and the base needs to be at an airport to I think? HEY CAT little input might help!Gurundu the Rat wrote:Would it be legal to register your school in another province and just operate in Ontario? Say have a PO Box in Quebec and have your planes officially "based" in Quebec but operate in Ontario. Fuckin red tape. Like we don't got enough already.
Rat.
What you need to know is, how to get what you need to know.
This is not a retreat. Its an advance to the rear.
There are only 10 people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
This is not a retreat. Its an advance to the rear.
There are only 10 people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
You're right, it would be a satellite school situation. It would require TC approval and can only be for a limited time. There are also other requirements about how you are going to deal with remote maintenace, supervision restrictions and a bunch of other regulation. It's all intended to limit the ability for one company to encroach on other's territory. Which isn't that bad an idea. (Let's not get into the whole "government managing/mismanaging free enterprise scenarios.)
As with all good intentions though, where it has fault is that to set up a satellite at an airport where there is demand but no operating FTU becomes quite an exercise.
As with all good intentions though, where it has fault is that to set up a satellite at an airport where there is demand but no operating FTU becomes quite an exercise.
Being stupid around airplanes is a capital offence and nature is a hanging judge!
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
Mark Twain
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
Mark Twain
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It has been a while since I owned a flight school, however as I recall setting up a satellite school is just to restrictive and would not solve the problem.....Then you would need to setup a sat. site and the base needs to be at an airport to I think? HEY CAT little input might help!
Remember these schools already are licensed by TC who have the regulatory authority to license said schools.
If it were my school and these clowns were going to put me out of business I would defy them and just keep on training and let them try and put me in jail.
However that is not what most people would do and I do not blame them.
It is just sad, very sad to see these people hammered into the ground by power hungry civil servants who have no idea of what trying to work for a living means.
I have just got back home to Kanada a couple of hours ago and am in a hotel in Vancouver thinking about how fortunate I am to be dealing with the authorities in Europe who are still open to working with industry.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Was that nastygram from the Liberal Government or the Brampton Chapter of Hell's Angels? It is so hard to tell these days!clunckdriver wrote:We just recived our first "nastygram" from them today demanding money if we wish to continue flying! Consultation? No such took place, just an ultimatum given to us at Brampton, for Gods sake we have to kick these clowns out next month, Im not politial but we have no choice!
Standby for new atis message
This certainly sound like a cash grab to me and an opportunity to shrink the training school pool. If there is a silver lining to this story for the schools in Ottawa its that Quebec is just across the river. Not sure if the corporate tax structure in Quebec would prohibit a move across the river but at least there is that option. It would be a mininmal disruption to staff and students. The same can't be said for other Ontario schools. Good luck with the battle.