Jazz Upgrade Times

MjetR · Post by **MjetR** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:07 am

Just wondering: typically, once hired how long are you expected to stay a F/O until you can upgrade to Captain. I know it all depends on new hires and pilots moving on, but in general. I'm just trying to get a general idea idea.

Thanks guys,

MJetR

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:54 am

minimum a decade I think.

MjetR · Post by **MjetR** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:56 am

Four1oh wrote:minimum a decade I think.

That's okay considerering most pilots only use Regionals as a steping stone to accumlate hours. How does PIC time work in the right seat?

RobZombie · Post by **RobZombie** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:20 am

MjetR wrote:
How does PIC time work in the right seat?

any time the skipper goes to the john, u start the clock!!

Dude if u don't have any PIC the regionals are not the place to get it

RZ

MjetR · Post by **MjetR** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:21 am

RobZombie wrote:
MjetR wrote:
How does PIC time work in the right seat?
any time the skipper goes to the john, u start the clock!!

Dude if u don't have any PIC the regionals are not the place to get it

RZ

What about alternating legs?

. . · Post by **. .** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:25 am

I imagine jazz is authorized for PIC under supervision, in which case you could log 100hrs of PIC under supervision. I've heard the upgrade times were more along the lines of 5-7 years but I haven't followed it that closely. That would be for YYZ or YUL of course, to go left seat in YYC YVR or YHZ would take significantly longer.

Despite taking on PF duties from the right seat, every other leg, you're still logging it as FO time. You're ultimately not making the big decisions without approval from the guy on your left.

Blue Yonder · Post by **Blue Yonder** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:21 am

You will get your chance for Captaincy regardless of how many hours you’ve logged PIC with Jazz.

It’s all predicated on seniority; sked, holidays, base, equip and position. So when your number comes up you head for the Captain’s Course.

Pass the course and she-bang, you get the extra stripe and all the head-aches that come with it.

Blue

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:25 pm

When I left it was 12-14 yrs at YYC on the dash, longer in YVR. Could be as little as 8-10 in YUL or YYZ. (Can't speak to the RJ...)

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:14 pm

I think for a new hire 10 years is a good bet. As for PIC under supervision, aint gonna happen. Doesn't matter if your a space shuttle pilot or one of the wonder FO's fresh from school. Your going to get that upgrade when your number is up.

fasteddie · Post by **fasteddie** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:22 am

The folks hired in Aug 2005 (beginning of this round of hiring) are a little over 100 numbers away from the most junior capt. spots (Dash 8 yul).

There are approx 1550 pilots total, somewhere between 400 and 500 hired since 2005 I think, not sure exactly.

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:40 am

It is a long wait to an upgrade at Jazz. But I wouldn't say 10 years. Probably more like 5-7 years.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:50 am

The folks hired in Aug 2005 (beginning of this round of hiring) are a little over 100 numbers away from the most junior capt. spots (Dash 8 yul).

Not bad. Someone else should get their facts strait before they write nonsense on this forum. That's a pretty good gig. After 2 years you become the best paid Dash 8 captain in the world.

uncleron · Post by **uncleron** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:17 pm

Tony,
"After 2 years you become the best paid Dash 8 captain in the world."

That's only half the story....don't forget to divide by one of the lowest paid crj pilots in the world.It all averages out in the end.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:15 pm

Uncleron.
Good point. But just to keep things in perspective, you then become a well paid Crj Capt (I know, it use to be better...) by N. American standards. That part might take a little longer to achieve although with the "mass exodus" to WJ, I can only assume the future looks better for upgrades for those who do stick around. Is any of this making sense??

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:13 pm

Tony and All. Here are some fact on seniority at Jazz.

Most junior capt, YUL Dash, hired in 2000. He will be on line in Jan. 08

Most senior pilot hired post CCAA is 47 numbers below him(Sept 05)
Jan 06 130
May 06 210
Jan 07 270
Oct 07 (Last Course) 450

Not ot mentioned the numerous pilots (Capt, and FO) who have left for WJ, CX, EK, AT, SW,......etc.

An the 80-100 frozen pilots waiaing to go to mainline.

Every bid has seen about 30-50 upgrades

Mind you there are 200 pre CCAA fo's that can now hold a Captain seat. They will obvioulsy be upgraded first.

Like I said, it's still a long wait to the left seat. But no 10 years like it has been advertised previoulsly.

Something to keep in mind, they did not hired anyone duirng a 4 year period. 2001-2005. Eventually upgrade times will go from 7-8 years dowm to 3-4 if that makes any sense.

Off course n this industry things can change for the worst quickly, but if that happens you are screwed no matter where you work.

Now as far as pay goes. Highest paid Dash pilots in North America, 2nd highest on the CRJ. (Only Horizon pays more). That is not saying much because the US regional salary is just plain gross and wrong.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:39 pm

Thanks DH.

uncleron · Post by **uncleron** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:48 pm

Hi Tony,

"any of this making sense??"

Nothing in this industry seems to make sense.By the way I miss your show.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:03 am

Can't take anything in this industry too seriously. It's all a game. Only as you get older do you understand that. Best to just watch those Sopranos reruns.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:19 am

Yes it looks good for a driver hired in 2005 for upgrade time, but what about being hired now as was the question. if a guy/gal were hired today how long to a upgrade?
From the date of hire many things have to happen, lots of retirments, expansion, increased fleet utilization, all have to come together for a quick(er) upgrade.
Jazz has some older CPTS, but lots of 40ish CPTS, so not alot of retirements in the immediate future. Does anyone have some actual info on Jazz retirments?

The expansion is mostly over unless Jazz finds more flying aside from AC, which apperently they are looking for.
The planes are old, and probibly wouldn't handle being worked harder then they already are.

So really no one knows, it's all best quess. But if I were a betting man, I'd place my money around 10 years for new hires.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:49 pm

But really, who cares? your making great money by year 3, and get a good schedule from day 1.

No?

spaz · Post by **spaz** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:17 pm

KAG, why would it take longer for someone hired today to upgrade than someone who was with the company before 9/11 and CCAA? Especially considering that the retirements go up each year?

10 years, Bah.

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:17 pm

I don't know what the upgrade times are for YUL, YYZ. However in YYC if you want the left seat its get this. 18 years.

I flew a a guy 2 weeks ago, hes half way up the list in YYZ for captains, he just transfered back to YYC for captaincy so that he doesn't have to commute, 18 year seniority, hes #65 of 65 captains on the RJ out there.

Just some insight though, don't worry about the left seat, It will come with time. Myself the more I think about it, I probably won't bid a capt spot until my number is better anyway. Once your ready for that you'll obviously be a senior FO which means.

-You pick your schedule
-Making decent money
-Best holidays to pick from
-Don't have to work long weekends and holidays(christmas)
-Easy flying

When you upgrade you'll again be on the bottom meaning
-another 1-2 years reserve
-No holidays off in summer
-Guaranteed to work all major holidays
-Schedule will suck

So enjoy your time as an FO I know that I am

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:57 pm

tonysoprano wrote:
But really, who cares? your making great money by year 3, and get a good schedule from day 1.
No?

Doesn't completely apply at Jazz.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:06 pm

...didn't think so.

spaz · Post by **spaz** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:08 am

Kag answer my question.