Lawyers win, we all lose

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:45 am

AIRCRAFT CARBURETOR, PARTS SHIPMENTS STOPPED

The company that makes the majority of carburetors and associated
replacement parts for the most popular general aviation engines says
it's stopped shipping as of Nov. 1 because it can't afford the
insurance. Precision Airmotive's MSA carbs are used on most of the
Lycoming, Continental and Franklin engines currently in service and
are also put on new engines. Precision spokesman Alan Jesmer told
AVweb that the action resulted from the company's being named in
numerous lawsuits, regardless of the involvement of its products in
the incidents that gave rise to the suits. The cost of dealing with the
litigation marginalized the business. "Precision has seen its liability
insurance premiums rise dramatically, to the point that the premium
now exceeds the total sales dollars for this entire product line"

Alex YCV · Post by **Alex YCV** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:27 am

It is one of the most painful things of the US justice system. Rather than requiring plaintiffs to prove that X or Y or Z caused an accident, just sue them all and make them explain why they aren't part of it.

Example, guy is walking down the sidewalk, and trips over a the edge of a slightly heaved section of sidewalk and falls, breaking his ankle.

In Canada, typically they would sue the city or similar.

In the US, they sue the city, the contractor that installed the sidewalk, the company that mixed and delivered the cement, the property owner next to where the sidewalk is, the previous person who walked down the sidewalk (they should have alerted him to the danger), the individual city engineer that failed to inspect the site, the company that made the tools used to measure the concrete as level, the excavation company, and the individual engineer that designed that section of sidewalk for the city.

90% of those people had nothing to do with the sidewalk being slightly heaved, and they certainly had no involvement in the injury that followed. However, because they have to go to court to prove that didn't do anything, these companies will often pay small settlements to avoid paying lawyers to go argue the case. Paying out $10,000 is cheaper than paying out $100,000 in legal fees to prove you aren't involved.

So every time a 150 or 172 crashes, this company is likely named in a wrongful death suit, even if thier product had nothing to do with the death, and they are required to fight their way out of it, costing huge amounts.

tiny · Post by **tiny** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:42 am

Its a sad sad day. Don't they also on Marvel Schebler?

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:15 am

Maybe this is the aviation spirits telling us that carburators should be put to rest.

Brantford Beech Boy · Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:15 am

"First we kill all the lawyers..."

I love Shakespere.

BBB

CID · Post by **CID** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:24 am

The lawyers are merely acting on requests from the public.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:31 am

The Nazi concentration camp guards were merely acting upon requests from above, too.

Sorry, that kind of revolting and unethical behaviour cannot be simply excused by, "I was just following orders".

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:43 am

Some of those companies should set up shop here. Frivilous lawsuits dont seem to go as far up here.

As for America, that country is completely fucked. People suing over spilled coffee, running your economy into ruins for a phoney war while millions dont even have basic health care.

Bravo1Six · Post by **Bravo1Six** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:44 am

Brantford Beech Boy wrote:"First we kill all the lawyers..."

I love Shakespere.

BBB

Unfortunately, the context in which that line appears actually makes it a compliment to lawyers, as was intended by the Bard.

CID · Post by **CID** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:03 am

There is a tort reform movement in the US that is addressing this very issue.

Hedley, are you serious? You're comparing lawyers to Nazi concentration camp guards?

A lawyer is just a specialist that uses his knowledge to help common citizens with legal issues. Demonizing a specialist just because things don't always work out to your advantage helps nobody.

Attack the law, not the lawyer.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:23 am

You're comparing lawyers to Nazi concentration camp guards?

You're right, that's being unkind to many Nazi concentration camp guards.

The law is a revolting, immoral, unethical machine, which is created, manipulated, administrated and tended to by lawyers, the objective of which is to suck money out of unfortunate passers-by who happen to stumble within grasp of the "law machine".

v6g · Post by **v6g** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:26 am

I don't understand their reasoning. Do their competitors not have to pay these legal costs? Does charging the end customer for the legal costs make their business uncompetitive? Why can't these costs simply be passed to the end customer, ie: us? There's still a demand for carburetors.

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:34 am

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:35 am

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:16 pm

Do their competitors not have to pay these legal costs?

That is the problem, they don't have much competition, and for those of us currently trying to overhaul our carburetors, we are in trouble.

JBI · Post by **JBI** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:44 pm

Alex YCV · Post by **Alex YCV** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:48 pm

JBI, it is also the question of liability beyond the scope of a product or situation. If a carb manufacture produces a good product, but with poor maintenance the product fails, why are they liable? They likely will be found not to be liable, but they will have to fight in court to prove it.

The system is upside down. The plaintiffs should have to show cause before they can file, not just this random shotgun approach every time something goes wrong. I am particularly fond of the lawsuits filed that name "john does 1 through 10" effectively allowing the plaintiff to bootstrap in anyone and everyone that they think might have been near to the situation.

The light aircraft industry is pretty much on the ropes because of this sort of thing.

CD · Post by CD » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:01 pm

Aviation Product Liability
General Aviation Air Crash, Manufacturer Immunity?
AvWeb: General Aviation Revitalization Act of 1994 (GARA)

sstaurus · Post by **sstaurus** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:39 pm

They also said they are doing this largely to send the message that something needs to be done, production should start up again in time. The supply of carbs cannot just be allowed to dry up.

linecrew · Post by **linecrew** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:18 am

clunckdriver wrote:...so if little Johnie's relatives sue they only have to point at the markings on the pump! {not quite that simple, but you get the gist of it}

Brilliant! Beat them at there own skewed game.

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:37 am

CID wrote:There is a tort reform movement in the US that is addressing this very issue.

Hedley, are you serious? You're comparing lawyers to Nazi concentration camp guards?

A lawyer is just a specialist that uses his knowledge to help common citizens with legal issues. Demonizing a specialist just because things don't always work out to your advantage helps nobody.

Attack the law, not the lawyer.

Another well thought out statement by our poster child.

A lawyer is a scum sucking pig who would jerk over his/her own mother if he/she thought it would make him/her a buck.

Lawyers make sure there is lot's of sueing, that way they ensure their employment and it grows their profesion. Often it is unnecessary and in a lot of cases, the only person who really gets any real benefit is the lawyer.

Without lawyers, this would never have happened and life would be much better.

CID · Post by **CID** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:22 am

twotter,

Go watch cartoons. The grown-ups are talking.

Widow · Post by **Widow** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:57 am

Carburetor Line Sold

Precision Airmotive has reached a tentative deal with "a group including Tim Henderson, President of Aero Accessories, and others involved in the manufacture of the Tempest brand of general aviation products," to buy Precision’s line of MSA aircraft carburetors, according to a news release from Aero Accessories/Tempest issued Monday. The group says it plans to move the manufacturing facilities for the carbs to a facility in an undisclosed location in North Carolina. Precision announced earlier this month that it was suspending manufacture and distribution of the carbs and parts after it was unable to obtain product liability insurance. There’s no mention of the insurance issue in the Henderson Group’s release. Precision has been involved in several high-profile lawsuits concerning the carburetors and the company said it was unable to get insurance coverage, at any cost, necessary to continue supplying carbs. MSA carburetors are used in most normally aspirated Continental, Lycoming and Franklin engines. There is an inventory of carbs and parts available. The deal with the new group is expected to be finalized by the end of January.

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/b ... tml#196610

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:07 pm

While we are talking about law and lawyers, you know what they say about somebody that represents himself in court? He has an idiot for a client.