Commercial Written

eterepekio · Post by **eterepekio** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:45 pm

What's the best material to prepare for this exam?
There is so much out there, and TC just gives a broad guide of the subjects.

Thanks

eterepekio

renfley · Post by **renfley** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:05 pm

I studied with what ever I can get my hands on! This includes the FGU, the answer guides, both for PPL and CPL, The weather command manual, advanced human factors, Finding the Sun's true bearing, chances are you wont get a question on it but most have at least 1. There are a couple websites out there that offer free tests, try http://www.aerotraining.com Be careful though it does contain errors, use it only as a guide and for practice.

Another good thing is the CARS, There's a couple people who have published a book of all the required knowledge for CPL, there are lot's of em floating around, ask other pilot's they might have a copy that they can lend you. I lent mine out last year and never got it back!!!!!! ':x'

Use the study and ref. guide by TC and make sure you know everything it covers.

Also TC puts out a list of the most common areas people have trouble with, I got this from my school, but I imagine this would be available through your local TC office.

Make sure you know your documents Journey logs, certificates etc. inside and out, they will definitely be checking this!

Last but not least, ASK as many questions as you need to!

Good luck, and if there's anything else feel free to ask or pm me.

eterepekio · Post by **eterepekio** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:03 am

Thanks! Few questions:

1. Finding The Sun's True Bearing- TP 784E is not available online, and its 112 pages. Where else can I get this info?

2.How detailed are the questions? For example under "Principles of Turbine Engine", are they looking for the basics or stuff like EPR, primary and secondary flow, bypass ratios, etc.

3. Do they ask questions on topics not found in the study guide? I heard some people got asked retarded things like climb rate of birds.

4. Are the questions in the Commercial Pilot Answer Guide similar in content to the ones in the exam?

Thanks again for your time

eterepekio

sissyphus · Post by **sissyphus** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:45 am

I think they took the Sun's true bearing off the CPL exam

renfley · Post by **renfley** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:01 am

sissyphus wrote:I think they took the Sun's true bearing off the CPL exam

They might have, I wrote mine 4 years ago, but to answer your question, there's a book out there, http://www.aviationworld.net/product.as ... 2&cID=105

The questions are similar, they might be at bit more difficult, i.e. same question but the choices might seem all right, don't forget, it's the "Most right" answer your looking for.

I've got a copy of http://www.aviationworld.net/product.asp?pID=216&cID=2
Some might see it as overkill, but there wasn't one question about engines I couldn't answer.

How detailed are the questions? For example under "Principles of Turbine Engine", are they looking for the basics or stuff like EPR, primary and secondary flow, bypass ratios, etc.

Yes that's pretty much what they are looking for, as long as you can understand how a jet or turbine works, you should be fine. But it doesn't hurt to get as much knowledge as you can!

Do they ask questions on topics not found in the study guide? I heard some people got asked retarded things like climb rate of birds.

I don't remember seeing anything like this, but it wouldn't surprise me!

hope this helps!

cowboy · Post by **cowboy** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:38 pm

Suns True Bearing... I wrote in April, It still there.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:57 pm

Suns True Bearing

112 Pages

Who gives a shit. Take your 1 in 4 guess for that 1 question and move on - focus your study time on more productive matters...

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:31 pm

Here's some from mine:

-Triangle of Velocities.
-ADF time/ distance check.
-VOR reception.
-Intrepret airspace from a Lo Class B,G,E. (know floors)
-ADF relative bearing to and from station.
-GPS (satellite fixes)
-Horizontal Stab./ Trim positions. (KNOW GEN INSIDE AND OUT)
-Stall !!!
-Human Factors -illusions at night, runways, rain etc.
- Know how to use Civil Twilight Tables.
-Information from TACAN, VOR, VORTAC.
-DME information (where to obtain * navaids*) and associated errors.
-ADF Errors.
-Predict Vor indications Before, at and after a IFR reporting point.
-VOT idications.

If you talk nicely i'll post more later

also..use the (yes, I know it has errors)and Sharper edge...score at least 85% in these books before writing.. best of luck

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:27 pm

Yup got finding the suns true bearing on my CPL written, chose C, got it wrong, dang!

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:23 am

I found the Commercial Pilot Answer Guide to be pretty close to the actual exam. Get 80 percent on all sections in the Guide and you'll pass the real test no sweat.

http://www.canada-shops.com/Magasin/vip ... 793.2.html

Good luck!

Just remember, if ISTP can do it, anyone can.

-istp

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:40 pm

HEY ISTP!!

If canpilot can pass the cpl..anyone can..including ISTP

wxnut · Post by **wxnut** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:54 am

just wondering - can the 80 hrs be in the form of self study these days or did that regulation change as well for the cpl written?

Good Luck Ya'll.

Grey_Wolf · Post by **Grey_Wolf** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:53 pm

CAR 421.30

Ground School Instruction
(amended 2006/12/14; no previous version)

(a) An applicant shall have completed a minimum of 80 hours commercial pilot aeroplane ground school instruction including at least the following subjects:
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

( i ) Canadian Aviation Regulations,
( ii ) aerodynamics and theory of flight,
( iii ) meteorology,
( iv ) airframes, engines and systems,
( v ) flight instruments,
( vi ) radio and electronic theory,
( vii ) navigation,
( viii ) flight operations,
( ix ) licensing requirements, and
( x ) human factors including pilot decision‑making.

(b) An applicant who is a graduate from an approved integrated course shall have completed the applicable course requirements in section 426.75 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations.
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

Looks like by reading it, it would seem that a student needs those hours in a classroom environment. However, 80 hours seems long to fill but it can be done pretty easily ...

Why not add more Nav Exercises; more Wx Interpretation; add an 'Intro to Turbines' Section under Flight Ops; instead of 1 Ground School 'Final Exam', why not add a few more tests (or even a "mid-term test", or to boot, 'Sectional' tests); CRM an PDM (so we can get that warm fuzzy feeling just like CAT

)

Heck you could even include 'Multi-Engine' and 'Intrument Rating' Ground Schools in there to make up the difference if you were short.

As a pet peeve, looking at some of the posts on the forum, many could spend several more hours 'disecting' the CAR and actually learning what you need to know, and learning how to be able to research the CARs to find out the answer. Granted some would argue that the CARs are poorly "written" .... the more time you spend dabbling with the CARs the easier it gets to find what you're looking for ....

THEICEMAN · Post by **THEICEMAN** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:14 pm

I did 40 hrs ground school & 40 hours self-study......

Depends on the school?

Grey_Wolf · Post by **Grey_Wolf** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:21 pm

THEICEMAN wrote:I did 40 hrs ground school & 40 hours self-study......

Depends on the school?

Before or After the Change?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:25 pm

CRM an PDM (so we can get that warm fuzzy feeling just like CAT

Please do not get the idea that I am anti CRM / PDM.

Far from it, I am arguably the most ardent believer in proper CRM / PDM in the known universe.

My concern at times is the way these subjects are taught and by whom.

As an example if xsbank were teaching these subjects I would feel confident that the students would finish the course with a usable practical baseline from which to improve on their safe operation of flying devices.

NOTE:

( I used xsbank as an example only because I have some knowledge of his background in these subjects....there are many out there who I could have named but I used him in this instance. )

Unfortunately these subjects are not always taught by people with a practical knowedge of how it really works in aviation outside of the insular world of flight instruction.

Grey_Wolf · Post by **Grey_Wolf** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:03 pm

My concern at times is the way these subjects are taught and by whom

.... and that folks is why you RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH; even before putting a penny into a Flight School !!!

Unfortunately these subjects are not always taught by people with a practical knowedge of how it really works in aviation outside of the insular world of flight instruction.

Sad to say but it's all so true ... according to TC new rules, to teach groundschool ..

426.24 Requirements for Ground Instructor
(amended 2006/12/14; no previous version)

The requirements in respect of the position of ground instructor are:
(amended 2006/12/14; no previous version)

A person may be appointed or act as ground instructor for a flight training unit if that person:
(amended 2006/12/14; no previous version)

(a) demonstrates to the chief flight instructor, or designated assistant chief flight instructor or check instructor, that they have sufficient aviation experience to have technical competence in the subjects they are to teach; and
(amended 2006/12/14; no previous version)

(b) is briefed by the chief flight instructor, or designated assistant chief flight instructor or check instructor, on his or her duties and responsibilities and the applicable instructional techniques set out in the Flight Instructor Guide, Part I.(amended 2006/12/14; no previous version)

and

406.24 No flight training unit shall appoint a person as a ground instructor and no person shall act as a ground instructor unless the person holds a flight instructor rating in the appropriate category or meets the personnel licensing standards.
(amended 2006/12/14; previous version)

The previous version YOU ask ????? ....

406.24 No flight training unit shall appoint a person as a ground instructor, and no person shall act as a ground instructor, unless the person

(a) has been briefed by the chief flight instructor on the objectives and standards of the training to be conducted; and

(b) has demonstrated to the chief flight instructor a satisfactory level of practical and theoretical knowledge of the subject that the person is to teach.

Which means that under the 'old' system .... A student learning to get his CPL could, if they demo'd to the CFI as mentionned above, could teach a PPL groundschool ...

How's that for poking the fire CAT?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:15 pm

Which means that under the 'old' system .... A student learning to get his CPL could, if they demo'd to the CFI as mentionned above, could teach a PPL groundschool ...

How's that for poking the fire CAT?

Not bad Grey_Wolf...not bad at all.

406.24 No flight training unit shall appoint a person as a ground instructor and no person shall act as a ground instructor unless the person holds a flight instructor rating in the appropriate category or meets the personnel licensing standards.

What does the part in red mean?

Are there some standards that someone could meet and still teach ground school without holding a flight instructors rating?

Grey_Wolf · Post by **Grey_Wolf** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:03 pm

To do Flight Training, suprisingly YES !!!
CAR 405.21 and 425.21

Still Working on Groundschool though ....

My best guess would be under CAR 421.69 (for aeroplanes), where pending on what license & ratings you have, you get 'hour credits' to reduce meeting the minimums for holding a Class 4 Instructor Rating.

The way I read is that it's no dice to being able to teach ground school without an instructor's rating unless .... you met the "personal licensing standards" which IMHO ..... is a stupid and redundant way of saying you need to get the rating, period.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:25 pm

Thanks Grey_Wolf:

Not understanding how to understand CAR's does not mean you are lacking in intellect, because others far brighter than us have the same problem.

I get into some real pissing matches with a lot of posters when I try and explain that it is not possible to get a definitive answer from TC on many issues.

These regulations were written with lots of wriggle room for interpretation so as to allow TC to make decisions based on their agenda at the moment with the person or company they are dealing with at the moment.

If TC has decided or decides that to teach ground school a person must hold a flight instructors rating they have culled some of the most experienced people in aviation from teaching ground school.

Grey_Wolf · Post by **Grey_Wolf** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:38 pm

I get into some real pissing matches with a lot of posters when I try and explain that it is not possible to get a definitive answer from TC on many issues.

These regulations were written with lots of wriggle room for interpretation so as to allow TC to make decisions based on their agenda at the moment with the person or company they are dealing with at the moment.

Agreed !!! For something [CARs] that's supposed to be the legalese black and white .... the only thing black and white are the letters on the page; the rest is grey !!! It's suprising on how punctuation and the use of words that throws people for a loop. Not to mention the apparent lack of standardization amongst TC Inspectors ... What's fair for one may not be necessarily for another ... and that's where infighting on the boards come in.

Cheers

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:45 pm

Why would TC not want experienced people teaching ground school?

Do they actually think that we need to pass their instructors course to be acceptable to teach ground school?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:53 pm

Not to mention the apparent lack of standardization amongst TC Inspectors ... What's fair for one may not be necessarily for another ... and that's where infighting on the boards come in.

Did you read the discussion I had with TC Guy about some schools doing twin engine training with the fuc.in gear down?

Only one thing is obvious to me when I get into a discussion with these TC types...I must have learned to fly on another planet because I sure don't understand their mind set.

Oh. wait a minute..now I get it......I couldn't possibly know anything because I have not drank their kool aid.

Grey_Wolf · Post by **Grey_Wolf** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:05 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Why would TC not want experienced people teaching ground school? Do they actually think that we need to pass their instructors course to be acceptable to teach ground school?

Playing devil's advocate

.... 1 word: Standardization?

What easier way to 'disqualify' someone from doing something you don't want them to do by imposing a perceived limit for all to follow. Set up 'red tape' and 'administrative control' to herd the sheep.

Does this mean that you can't do it? Nope ! It just means that TC does recognize it.

Grey_Wolf · Post by **Grey_Wolf** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:15 pm

As for the gear-down thread, Yes I have read it.

The only possible reason that I keep coming back to is that keeping the gear down is *safe* in their mind set.

Why? Best guess would be that if the engine failed that they would avoid a fleet upgrade by not having to replace two engines, they would only replace the gear.

However, the checklist that I've been though on a fail engine twin

- Control the Aircraft
- Airspeed, maintain Blue line or above
- Mixture Rich
- Pitch, set Full Fwd
- Power, set Full
- Flaps Up
- Gear Up
- Identify the dead engine, dead foot = dead engine
- Verify with throttle the dead engine
- Feather dead engine
- Mix ICO when confirmed dead engine
- Info ATC
- Pending on phase of flight, Land as req or restart if possible