WOULD YOU?
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
WOULD YOU?
As a tower controller of a Flight Service Specialist, would you leave vehicles on the runway for a few minutes while the position is unmanned for a relief break or to do the weather?
If riding in a plane is FLYING. Then Riding in a boat is SWIMMING!
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thatdaveguy
- Rank 4
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:07 pm
ATC MANOPS says to follow unit guidelines for temporarily vacating an operating position if you're the only qualified person in the unit. Depending on the unit, they may permit 1) leaving the position for a short relief break and 2) doing it with active vehicle/air traffic. As a user or part of airport operations, you may be able to find out about a specific unit through the NCM (Nav Canada Manager).
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thatdaveguy
- Rank 4
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:07 pm
That's the way our unit is supposed to do it, but seriously, I can be down the stairs do what I need to do and be back to the position in 40 seconds. Plus we have a speaker in the washroom.thatdaveguy wrote:don't you have to go through a lengthy process of calling every unit everywhere and changing the airspace, etc?
It would take me 3 or 4 minutes to call everyone I needed to and change the atis, etc.
At my sight we can only do it during times of no known or anticipated traffic. Then we change over to FSS the same way we do at the end of the day. It takes about 4 minutes to prep for a break that takes a minute or so. But some times nature calls. Plus we have a speaker in the washroom too
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GilletteNorth
- Rank 7
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:09 pm
- Location: throw a dart dead center of Saskatchewan
Carry out the following additional actions before leaving the operating position unattended, if appropriate,:
a. issue advance notification for aircraft and ground traffic (ie: tell the vehicles when you anticipate any air traffic like with an IFR estimate, inform the aircraft calling 70NM out about vehicles performing snow removal in progress)
b. remove ground traffic from the manoeuvering area (see above if appropriate... doesn't mean you have to every time)
c. operate airport lighting
Interpret (b) to normally mean that if you decide the vehicles may be a conflict for a known arriving/departing aircraft you must remove them. There may be other less common reasons/factors for removing them as well but it goes back to if approriate.
Leaving vehicles on a runway to continue working while a single stand FSS takes a short relief break is a common occurence. It doesn't constitute an unsafe condition for several reasons. At a site with a MF, a pilot is required to contact FSS on the radio 5 minutes prior to entering the zone, in which case (a) applies followed closely by (b) normally. If a plane is NORDO it must follow procedures and overfly the field (and while doing so the pilot can look down to see if there are obstructions on the field). If departing, pilots must contact FSS prior to entering the maneuvering area (runways AND taxiways) and SHOULD be able to see vehicles working on the runway while lining up for takeoff even if the pilot decides to disregard the previous rule.
a. issue advance notification for aircraft and ground traffic (ie: tell the vehicles when you anticipate any air traffic like with an IFR estimate, inform the aircraft calling 70NM out about vehicles performing snow removal in progress)
b. remove ground traffic from the manoeuvering area (see above if appropriate... doesn't mean you have to every time)
c. operate airport lighting
Interpret (b) to normally mean that if you decide the vehicles may be a conflict for a known arriving/departing aircraft you must remove them. There may be other less common reasons/factors for removing them as well but it goes back to if approriate.
Leaving vehicles on a runway to continue working while a single stand FSS takes a short relief break is a common occurence. It doesn't constitute an unsafe condition for several reasons. At a site with a MF, a pilot is required to contact FSS on the radio 5 minutes prior to entering the zone, in which case (a) applies followed closely by (b) normally. If a plane is NORDO it must follow procedures and overfly the field (and while doing so the pilot can look down to see if there are obstructions on the field). If departing, pilots must contact FSS prior to entering the maneuvering area (runways AND taxiways) and SHOULD be able to see vehicles working on the runway while lining up for takeoff even if the pilot decides to disregard the previous rule.
Having a standard that pilots lose their licence after making a mistake despite doing no harm to aircraft or passengers means soon you needn't worry about a pilot surplus or pilots offering to fly for free. Where do you get your experience from?
We have speakers in the kitchen and bathroom doiwnstairs. What i do and my manager or TS's have never complained. I wait til it slows down (which is often in Churchill, then i tell the vehicles i'm broadcasting off but i will still be monitoring the frequency and if they need anything just call and i'll be back up in a sec. Then i broadcast off and go do what i have to do.
It would be impossible when it is snowing to remove the vehicles everytime you need a coffee or have to use the facailities. Not to mention it would be just as impossible to not go to the washroom in the course of an 8 hour shift in a single stand station.
In the summers when i was in Thompson it would get so busy that i would only have a small glass of water before going into work on tower shift. It would get so busy and we were a split position then (one downstairs doing everything but radio, tower did radio exclusively) that i wouldn't get an opportunity to go to the bathroom. If i had a coffee or drank too much water i would have to go and there would be no way i could in good conscience leave the position becasue there was always traffic on the go. If i ever have bladder problems later in life i'm going to blame NavCan!!
It would be impossible when it is snowing to remove the vehicles everytime you need a coffee or have to use the facailities. Not to mention it would be just as impossible to not go to the washroom in the course of an 8 hour shift in a single stand station.
In the summers when i was in Thompson it would get so busy that i would only have a small glass of water before going into work on tower shift. It would get so busy and we were a split position then (one downstairs doing everything but radio, tower did radio exclusively) that i wouldn't get an opportunity to go to the bathroom. If i had a coffee or drank too much water i would have to go and there would be no way i could in good conscience leave the position becasue there was always traffic on the go. If i ever have bladder problems later in life i'm going to blame NavCan!!
FSS: puting the Service back in Flight Services....
