Why do people mock the ideals veterans defended?

[tiny]

In the years since WW2 the people of North America (and elswhere) have imbraced many of the "horrors" which the Nazis promoted. Abortion, euthanasia, and genetic engineering are some things which come to mind. Did the allied soldiers die in vain? Where the ideals they where fighting for not just? I would sugest that they where right in what they fought for in WW2. Let us remember them by honouring the strong stance they took for what is right.

Lest we forget.

[Hedley]

Did the allied soldiers die in vain?

Well, I think it's pretty much a certainty that they would have difficulty comprehending that Canada has become internationally known as a nation of dope-smoking queers.

My family founded this country. In particular, my great-great-great-grandfather Sir John Beverley Robinson would barf on his shoes if he saw what it has deteriorated into.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bever ... st_Baronet

[niss]

In the years since WW2 the people of North America (and elswhere) have imbraced many of the "horrors" which the Nazis promoted. Abortion, euthanasia, and genetic engineering are some things which come to mind. Did the allied soldiers die in vain? Where the ideals they where fighting for not just? I would sugest that they where right in what they fought for in WW2. Let us remember them by honouring the strong stance they took for what is right.

Lest we forget.

I dont think they weould appreciate the idea that you are using their memory to push a religious or at the very least moral agenda.

[bmc]

Tiny makes an interetsing point about the parallels of "research" then and now. The knowledge of that work was one of the attrocities if the war but not one of the key drivers for fighting it. No one went to war to stop genetic research.

[North Shore]

I think the difference between these subjects then and now is that back then the abortions and euthanasia were forced and the genetic engineering was performed on unwilling test subjects without any oversight...not to mention, unless you grow your own food exclusively, you've probably been the beneficiary of genetic engineering.

[Wilbur]

The allies also engaged in genetic engineering. The Brussel sprout was genetically engineered to be a highly nutritious, fast growing food. Aircrews dam near lived on the things.

Tiny, it is mostly those WW2 vets who have created the Canada we live in today. They are the ones who filled the work force and were our political leaders from the 40's to the early 90's. They are also still quite able to speak for themselves and don't require some young agenda pushing zealot speaking for them.

[tiny]

I'm not pushing an agenda or asking you to agree with me. I mearly wonder whether we have forgotten. Our actions disagree with our words.

[Lurch]

Ask anyone of those soldiers why they fought the war. I'll bet they would never say to stop any of those things. Do you really think the soldiers knew any of that was going on?

[tiny]

To you really think they supported it?

[Wilbur]

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," so said Voltaire. Of course, predictably, he was a lawyer pacifist philosipher who expired naturally at the ripe old age of 83. He didn't actually defend anything with his life, only with a pen and paper.

Tiny, do I think WW2 vets supported genetic engineering and abortion? I think some do and some don't. But as a group, they were the political power in this country when these things were undertaken, so probably the majority do. I know my aunt and uncle were very much supporters of the women's right to chose, and I don't recall my dad really expressing an opinion one way or the other. They were all WW2 vets.

So, perhaps you should keep YOUR words in YOUR mouth, and quit trying to PUT THEM INTO the mouths of vets.

[tiny]

I mearly question our motives as the younger generation and you disagree the my right to an opinion?

[tiny]

So it seems we have spiraled to the level of an arguement rather than a discussion of views and for that I am sorry. Though I am not sorry for my viewpoint.

[altiplano]

I mearly question our motives as the younger generation and you disagree the my right to an opinion?

So the younger generation is motivated by abortion, euthanasia and genetic engineering?

I think more like celeb gossip, cel phones and i-pods...

I mearly wonder whether we have forgotten.

Forgotten what? I think it is hard to compare the moral values of the country 65 years ago with those of todays world. Could people even 25 years ago imagine what we are living in today? Ideas and morals evolve and I'm sorry but I don't see any parallels to what the Nazi party promoted... (except maybe neo-con pundits on US television)...

When you bring up your "viewpoint" for discussion you should be prepared for the discussion that follows... That is all I see. You are asking if people agree and you are getting their answers, I don't see you getting flamed here or an argument spiraling out of control.

[Dash-Ate]

The nazi scientists were welcomed over here with open arms.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

[CID]

Well, I think it's pretty much a certainty that they would have difficulty comprehending that Canada has become internationally known as a nation of dope-smoking queers.

My family founded this country. In particular, my great-great-great-grandfather Sir John Beverley Robinson would barf on his shoes if he saw what it has deteriorated into.

Hedley, seriously you should do stand-up. The notion that homosexuality and illicit drug use are unique to present day Canada and that sort of thing just didn't exist in the 1800s is quite laughable.

tiny,

I think you're over-dramatizing the issues. Taking them out of context doesn't help either. I'm not 100% sure but doctors in Canada don't generally have the same intent in mind as Hitler did. In my opinion your views are somewhat extremist.

[Wilbur]

Tiny, you absolutely have a right to your opinion. What I object to is your opening post with the assertion that WW2 vets fought to prevent euthanasia, genetic engineering and abortion, and that doing so was "right."

You are trying to make the claim that WW2 vets fought for what YOU believe is morally "right." WW2 was not fought for these reasons, and WW2 vets to not come close to universally sharing your views on these moral/religious issues. Therefore, STOP trying to tie your moral agenda to the actions of our veterans. At best, they fought for your right to have and express your own opinions, whatever they might be. But it is wrong and disrespectful of them for you claim they share your beliefs.

[taxiway_matthew]

Well, I think it's pretty much a certainty that they would have difficulty comprehending that Canada has become internationally known as a nation of dope-smoking queers.

My family founded this country. In particular, my great-great-great-grandfather Sir John Beverley Robinson would barf on his shoes if he saw what it has deteriorated into.

Hedley, seriously you should do stand-up. The notion that homosexuality and illicit drug use are unique to present day Canada and that sort of thing just didn't exist in the 1800s is quite laughable.

tiny,

I think you're over-dramatizing the issues. Taking them out of context doesn't help either. I'm not 100% sure but doctors in Canada don't generally have the same intent in mind as Hitler did. In my opinion your views are somewhat extremist.

There is no abortion law in Canada.
We can abort a baby thats seconds away from coming out of the womb.
That is murder...life doesn't depends how far up your mother's vagina you are.
THAT is extremist, protesting it is not.

[CID]

taxiway_matthew,

The Nazis were trying to wipe out a race of people. Abortion in Canada, although much disputed and fought over isn't used by the government to wipe out undesirable races.

In that context, the Nazis haven't won.

The group who have gained ground are the extremist anti-abortionists who feel abortion is never acceptable or justified but killing doctors in cold blood is.

[Widow]

There is no abortion law in Canada.
We can abort a baby thats seconds away from coming out of the womb.
That is murder...life doesn't depends how far up your mother's vagina you are.
THAT is extremist, protesting it is not.

Huh??? Where on earth did you get that idea? What does it even mean?

http://www.cbctrust.com/provincebyprovince.php

[taxiway_matthew]

I'm syaing theres no aboriton law just as your link says, so a baby can be aborted at any time.

[Widow]

OK. If you say so.

[BTD]

I get such a kick out of this. These kinds of threads are entertainment and thats all.

How can someone post about what all of the WWII vets were specifically feeling and then relate it to present day issues and fault the younger generation.

How long before this becomes a religious debate?

[5400AirportRdSouth]

Nicely put Wilbur, I agree 100%.

[Dash-Ate]

A Lethal Year

By Charley Reese

11/12/07 "Lew Rockwell" -- -- The pro-war crowd has been emphasizing the recent drop in American casualties in Iraq, measured by the month, but the fact remains that 2007 has been the most lethal year of war for Americans, and it's not over yet.

At this writing, 853 Americans have died in 2007, which tops the previous record of 849 in 2004. Altogether, 3,858 Americans have lost their lives in Iraq. The sad thing is that they are dying for nothing, because the cowardly Congress refuses to stop the war by cutting off the funds.

The administration defines "winning" as a stable, democratic Iraq able to defend itself. That's really a definition of a no-win war. The only way to establish stability with Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites at each other's throats is to find another dictator ruthless enough to force stability at the point of a gun. In other words, you can have stability with no democracy or democracy with no stability. Take your choice.

Either way, it is not worth the life of a single American.

It's time for the American people to face the question, "What's in it for us?" That's not being selfish. It's our blood and our treasure, so surely the American people have a right to expect some gain for this sacrifice. So what is it?

The answer is nothing. The corporate friends of the Bush-Cheney gang have gained plenty of profits, but they haven't shared them with the dead soldiers. Or with the American people, for that matter. Whether Iraq has a new dictator or becomes an Islamic republic aligned with Iran, Americans will have no friends in a country we wrecked while killing at least 100,000 Iraqis and displacing 2 million more. It will be a long time before any nonsuicidal Americans put Iraq on their places-to-visit list.

The Bush administration has been the most secretive and deceptive bunch to occupy the White House thus far. The truth is, nobody knows for sure what the motive for going to war against Iraq really was. I read one theory that the neocons, the chief proponents and pushers of the war, envisioned the convicted embezzler and exile Ahmad Chalabi running the country and making peace with Israel. If it's true, it was a pipe dream based on ignorance. Nobody in Iraq who had suffered through Saddam Hussein's rule was going to turn the country over to some corrupt exiles who had been living the high life in London and Washington.

Regardless of why we went in, it's past time for us to get out. The Iraqi people don't want us. As long as we stay, we will be looked upon as occupiers, and the insurgents will keep whittling away at our forces. Occupation cannot be sustained in a hostile environment, and bribery won't change the way the Iraqis feel. We have done the people of Iraq way too much harm for them to forgive us.

There is no reasoning with President Bush. He's as likely to attack Iran as he is to withdraw troops from Iraq. The only answer is to pressure Congress to find the nerve to cut the purse strings. There will be enough money in the pipeline to safely withdraw the troops. Keeping young Americans in harm's way when their lives and limbs will be lost for no gains is not by any stretch supporting the troops. You support the troops by getting them out of harm's way, just as Ronald Reagan did after we lost the Marines in Lebanon.

Iraq may or may not have a bloody war after we leave. That's up to the Iraqis. It's no skin off our nose whether they reconcile or draw their knives. It's their country. Let them fight over it if that's what they want to do. The Bush administration has not done one single thing right in the Middle East, and the situation in the whole area is worse and more dangerous because of these blunders.

American withdrawal would be a blessing to everyone concerned.

Charley Reese has been a journalist for 49 years

[grimey]

The nazi scientists were welcomed over here with open arms.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

So? The fact that some R&D was conducted by immoral men doesn't make that R&D immoral. The Nazis made the mistake of ignoring scientific research conducted by Jews. We'd be no better if we ignored the research conducted by Germans.

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down: that's not my department says Werner von Braun" -- Tom Lehrer

And yes, I realize that the song this is taken from is arguing the opposite point of view. The point is that scientists arn't politicians, and their politics don't necessarily reflect on their science.