WTF?

[SinkRate]

Just Complaining......enjoy!

What is this whole industry coming too , seriously.......

You go to school , learn a bunch of overpriced bullshit only to be eligable to work the ramp and throw bags in buttF$%# nowhere. (if you are lucky)

If you are even luckier you dont have to move but are stuck instructing for peanuts, pumping gas , grooming, throwing bags etc. for the amazing oppurtunity to eventually fly for next to nothing. I wonder if after a doctor or lawyer gets their ticket, they clean the bathrooms for 10 bucks an hr during their probation period.

Then you get online, work for dogshit pay till you get 4 bananas. Here comes PIC time and a nice raise to above the poverty level, which is still less than the average factory salary.
Lets not forget to mention by this point you probably have an ATPL/2000 hrs which near is makes no difference an equivilant to a masters in aviation.
but wait ....time for another upgrade and pay cut. The cycle goes on and on.....

I sit here typing this as I am about to list my 10yr old car for sale because I can only afford a 15 yr old car. And I am very pleased with the fact that my "career" has also forced me to move in with roommates...again....

I am not implying being a pilot should mean instant millions or a status above the rest of the world, but how about being paid fairly......
Is 50 K a yr unreasonable for a turboprop/jet F/O position? I have 10 buddies pulling 60k/year to work a line in a plant with little or no education.

Driving forklift basically put me through flight school and that licence(which is usually free ) costs about 1500 bucks at any local trade school.
This entitles you to at least 30-50k a year anywhere. General labourer in a plant or a truck A/Z , D/Z gets you a decent living and can be attained in under a mnth...

Why did I spend upwards of 50 grand , countless hrs studying, training, tests and not to mention yrs of financial headache , blah , blah , blah. Weve all done it.....but for what?

So far the only things I can think of are personal satisfaction, popping up through the clouds on a shitty day and telling hotties im a pilot.
Quite different from the reasons why I actually picked this career.
I thought the purpose of going to school was sacrifice now to benefit later in life. ei. FINANCIAL PROSPERITY.

My point.....who knows,

What I do know is most people in my neck of the woods with otherwise normal jobs (factory, office, etc) have nice homes and new cars .
I often wonder if the clients I flew in corporate knew that i was being paid less than the person who mops the floor in the factories they own.....

Is flying a jet (or in my case turboprop) not as valuable a skill as being a general labourer at the local steel plant?.......
I shoulda stayed OUTTA school

Rant finished....thanx for you time

Anyone selling a VW for around 1500 bucks ...lol

[Over the Horn]

Sucks to be you!!

[snaproll20]

er..................hmmm................

it never gets any better??????????????????????

sounds a bit like you walked into a casino cold turkey, bet $50,000 on a game you didn't know how to play.

I suppose we all do this because we are addicted. Some addicts have a moment of clarity and stop doing it. I was just a lifelong junkie. Was it worth it??? After fifty years, I don't know. (02 deprivation at altitude?)
I could have been a contender........

Only you can decide.

I wish you luck, but you know, ranting on here is only opening yourself to ridicule. I am now going back to my gently shaken, not stirred, homebrew.

[sky's the limit]

Nice Rant.

You are correct. But, there are far too many of your peers who seem to enjoy the anal intrusions req'd to get going - some f'd up right of passage.

It starts with the companies not setting rates that allow improvement, and ends with pilots who fly for nothing.

You either accept it, or get out.

stl

[Cat Driver]

The problem is you seldom find people standing outside a fence watching a fork lift driver working and longing to be one.

[FastFlyBy]

Nice rant

I always enjoy reading something I can relate to.

[sky's the limit]

The problem is you seldom find people standing outside a fence watching a fork lift driver working and longing to be one.

Bingo.

[Cat Driver]

Yeh, skys the limit and a lot of people here think I'm dumb.

[sky's the limit]

Yeh, skys the limit and a lot of people here think I'm dumb.

LOL


Ignorance and ego are two things that shouldn't be combined - they are in spades around here though.

Wouldn't worry about it.


stl

[727driver]

Believe it or not there are some starving lawyers out there who need to work two jobs and drive a 10yr p.o.s. car with lots of student debts. These guys do it because the love to practice the law. No one says you have to take it. There are many trades out there that are screaming for people to enroll in apprentice programs because of the current short fall. Guy next door has a 21yr kid going into the gas fitter trade and already has a company lined up that will be paying close to $35.00/hr after his first year on the job. Sometimes you have to make a hard descision if things are not working out the way you planned. Luckily these days there are lots of opportunity to do well for one self. Its true that this profession eats their young but until newbies stop accepting these positions with low pay nothing will change. I sincerily hope you can realize your goal of being paid well for what you trained and sacrificed for; but there are other options in life.

[CAL]

Hey sink rate....you actually had a well put together rant...it shows that you are for real...because it is pretty much like that for most guys....not all...some lucked out got the cushy corporate gig etc....or live at home with no family so it doesnt matter.....and forget the first few years at an airline in Canada or most places for that matter.

At the end of the day like someone posted before no one hangs around the fences watching you land wishing they could do it.....I have no idea why we do it......but I guess when you get on top of that layer and the sun is out maybe for a few seconds you think its ok to make what an entry level mechanic makes after spending one year in school.....anyway you should know you are not alone.......but we carry on...in the end we will get there......

Oh I have a 9 year old tired VW that is for sale!?

[xsbank]

I have a VW Rabbit/Golf 4 dr/sunroof/CD stereo for sale for $1295 in Sidney, complete with lots of new bits.

[Rowdy]

No offence.. but did you research the industry AT ALL before spending all that money?!

I'm usually pretty positive and like to help people out.. but you are your own worst enemy. I have no sympathy for anyone that did not know about all this BS before getting into it or didn't thouroughly research it.

I fly airplanes because I like flying airplanes and am too lazy to work a real job and too much of a wuss to steal! If I wanted to make money.. or get ahead.. I would have continued my degree and sat bored out of my goddamn mind in a shitty office hating every minute of it. Mind you.. I probably would have been able to buy my own plane and fly for fun. MY CHOICE. I knew what I was getting into. I knew the industry treated people unfairly.. I knew the wages were low and the workload would be high.. I knew that every year I'd have to grind myself through another ride, another medical and more politics. Thats just the way it is.

The Biggest benefit are the amazing friendships and incredible sights I've seen so far. The joy of handling a big dollar machine.. the sunsets/sunrises etc etc. Not much can top those perks for me...

Too many people I see complaining... they all seem to be chasing the bigger machine. Why not chase the lifestyle?!? Pick a job with a good company.. treat them well, work hard and sit back nd enjoy. You really only get one shot.. why complain!? why get upset!?

Stay positive and be a good person and make some informed choices and you'll be much happier.

[1900guy]

Awesome! Just awesome! Way to vent man!

[SinkRate]

Rowdy
Your missing the point.... Im not in it to make huge bucks.
Matter of fact I love my job, and wouldnt change it for the world.

But that aside tell me you wouldnt mind making an average salary doing what you enjoy instead of always struggling to make ends meet .....Theres something wrong when you drop 50 grand + on licences, learn the skills you need not to kill each other and get paid sub par compared to other industries when the training and dedication far exceed other careers...

I agree with you as well Rowdy , I have met the most amazing people in my career and had the oppurtunity to see the world, that aspect is worth maybe a 10 g paycut....lol

However this is my rant so im fillin my boots...lol...

Thats all im saying...and im pissed cause i gotta sell my car. lol

To everyone who replied ...thanx for lending your ears...

Sink Rate

[Uncle Leo]

Thats all im saying...and im pissed cause i gotta sell my car. lol

To everyone who replied ...thanx for lending your ears...

Sink Rate

Ahmen Sink.
Dude, don't sell your car, pay off your loans with all the wonderful sights you've seen and how cool it feels to fly. That'll put your kids through school too, just tell em a good story about flying, Harvard loves that.

It's that toxic attitude that helped build this industry that treats people so well. "But I've met so many good people, I guess that'll put food on the table". It's great that you're able to see the cheery side of this business, all the great relationships, the pictures of you in front of your plane on facebook, and all of the stories you can tell, but don't use it to justify taking a royal jamming up the ass. That makes me nautious.

[Slappy the Squirrel]

If you don't like it, go to law school. It's never too late.

[Liquid Charlie]

unfortunately aviation -- especially in canada is still an apprenticeship industry -- weird because to apprentice in any other job you don't come out with the debit load accumulated in learning the basics of flying. Aviation pay levels have not changed that much over the years -- the rest have caught up -- I can remember when I first started flying out of Sioux I made more money than a cnr breakman -- now i would guess there aren't many flying for 3rd level carriers who will make as much. If you stay at it a "good" living is achievable but as we all know u won't get rich. A simple fact -- it's going to take you about 10 years to get close to the 100 grand level and another 10 years to top out at about 170K -- that depends on how your career goes and what you are willing to put up with. These numbers are quoted from existing carriers here -- maybe AC will give you a little more potential but not much -- internationally -- maybe more money to be made but I have not spoken with many long haul jocks who love their job -- mostly because airlines now are operating so close to the bone they are always tired and jet lagged and no family life -- it's too bad the flight schools fill people's eyes with stars but they are in business too and they want your money -- as for me -- would I change anything -- not on your life -- except that maybe Harvey would match my salary and I cud spend more time on my Beech -- -- lmfaooo -- I still can dream

[who me ?]

Aviation, well flying airplanes, the BIG problem is that lots and lots of people want to do it , and until very recently there were 10 pilots for every job. So that created a VERY competitive job market. The employers gained the benefit of an inexpensive , and competitive job market.This of course resulted in LOW wages ,POOR working conditions, in most but not all circumstances.Therefore the only people who stayed in Flying were those who were successful , and or those who loved to fly.


The Aviation Industry is finally changing due to , retirements and a strong ( for now ) economy . In the mean time it has created , an earn your dues attitude from the people who were successful in the industry , over the years . Many of these people were successful only due to good luck or good contacts . In my opinion there still is FAR too much "OLD BOYS' club attitude that goes on in hiring practices , who is friends with who and who is related to who.( sound like the RED Team ? )

There still is NO real standard to access some ones decision making and flying skill.

[station60]

I do it for the glamour.






(please, if anyone didn't see the sarcasm in that, don't reply)

[Highflyinpilot]

on the point about starring through a fence watching the plane alnd wishing you could do that, Im almost certain 5 years down the road being a pilot you(not you individually cat but in general) stare at your friends owning a nice house, nice vehicles atv snowmobiles whatever, home at night etc etc and think that could have been me.

Obviously flying planes is a hell of a lot funner than a steel plant labourer or forklift driver, but it all depends what you want outta life, that was my problem so i elected to get outta commercial flying and become a welder,knowing that my flying will never go away. I fly privately now and know that i can plant my feet at home with my family and just enjoy life.

dont get me wrong, many a times i still wonder what could have been if I had continued on in the aviation industry, cause lets face it , flying is so phacking fun. But im happy.

So I guess what im saying is if it was that horrible for your wants in life, you'd be doing something else like I chose to do.




P.S your rant was very good, exactly what I thought 3 years ago. I can relate to that

[Rowdy]

Sink rate.. I'm not draggin on you at all.

I just watch WAY too many people take huge and shitty pay cuts to move to a bigger piece of aluminum. What the eff is that about?!?

If guys didn't do that.. and jump ship all too easily, we wouldn't have companies requiring bonds.. and MAYBE just maybe they'd pay more!

Like I said.. we are our own worst enemies.

[gasper]

There is only one way to get the job that you really want. .... and it's called perseverance!

The Thesauras/dictionary says .....
Main Entry: per·se·vere
Pronunciation: "p&r-s&-'vir
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -vered; -ver·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French perseverer, from Latin perseverare, from per- through + severus severe
: to persist in a state, enterprise, or undertaking in spite of counterinfluences, opposition, or discouragement
- per·se·ver·ing·ly adverb

[lucky37]

I agree, the pay for new pilots is pretty low, but what's with the argument that we, as pilots, have to change that?

People say things like, "why are we accepting flying jobs for low pay?" or "why move to bigger equipment an accept a pay cut?" Try telling a 200 hr wonder to NOT accept a flying job because the pay is too low and that he should just hold out. I'm sorry, but holding out for a job that will pay more will likely result in not obtaining a flying job at all, and who wants to wait years working the ramp and holding out for more money? I think most people will be happy to fly and take a lower pay for the first while, knowing that once they gain some experience and time they will be more hire-able and will have more options. It's not a perfect situation.

As for moving on to bigger equipment and accepting a pay cut, I think some people look at their long-term goals and see that they don't want to stay flying medevacs or working for a charter company with no schedule, but want to move to a larger company flying larger aircraft and having a schedule and decent pay. Like it was said earlier, it's about lifestyle, and someone who doesn't enjoy flying smaller aircraft without any schedule won't be happy to sit in that position just because they don't want to take a pay cut.

Not saying the pay cuts are supported by myself, but you won't get what you really want in life without sacrifice. Nothing comes easy or free and you are never guaranteed a free ride in aviation, especially. One thing that might solve the low-pay problem is if there were less pilots, but try telling someone with the dream to fly for a living that they should forget their dreams to make it better for the rest of us who are flying.

[Liquid Charlie]

affirmative