Big choice...cant see myself doing anything else!

[mathias_now]

Hello ,

I’m currently forced to make a very tough choice regarding my future. I'm 22 years old, been to university for/with my ex, we broke up, and I dropped out. I’ve been single for a year and don’t plan/care to have girlfriend/wife/kids, could this work in my favor? I would totally give up all that to benefit my career. I've always planned on becoming a pilot; it was just a matter of when. Now I’m getting older, and need to act quickly. Money is some what of an issue; due to the fact my parents don't support me wanting to become a pilot. (My dad was a pilot, was laid off years ago, now he’s very bitter about the profession, and won’t even talk about it with me) My question is what should I do regarding education? Should I return to a university and pursue a degree or should I go to a college, such as Georgian for aviation management? They have agreed to let me enter into second semester in January without losing a semester or having to make one up that the end. The plus side to Georgian is that there are three mandatory paid co-ops which would allow me to save money and work on my licenses. I would also work part time between my co-ops. If needed I would even work a full year at the end to finish my training. By then I will be 25-26 and considered a "low-timer", would my age work against me?

I'm a huge fan of the PC-12 and would even consider flying it corporately for a living. I, unlike many, don’t want to fly the heavy tin. I would be happy flying tier 3 and nearing the end of my career corporately. Is this career goal attainable? I really can't see myself doing see myself doing anything else. I’ve thought long and hard and I’m prepared to eat, sleep, live, and breathe aviation.

I’ve heard the number one rule of aviation is “always have a back-up/out”, So what should I do about school?

Thanks in advance,

MN

[fixed pitch]

Getting a BA or BSc or Georgian college diploma won't give you a back up at all. Granted it's good to have an education but nowadays a BA will get you a job answering phones. Something more focused like a Bcomm will do you much better, again though, after flying for a decade or so you don't have many skills for much else.

Personally, go bang on a company like Air Sprint's door, get a job answering phones, without a BA, or sweeping the hanger. Work through your training while working at said company. If they don't put you on line after you're finished, nothing waisted, you've worked and paid for your training, pick up and find a job elsewhere. This worked for me and has for many others.

As for the women thing, well, I don't know what to tell you, there's a hell of a lot more to life than a job, women are nice.

[Nightflight]

As far as the age thing goes, don't worry about it. You have plenty of time to have a productive career. I was 27 when I first took the controls of a 150 and 29 when I graduated from an Aviation College program. I am now 37 and at Air Canada.

I recommend a college program like Seneca or Sault in Ontario if finances are an issue. Yes it is more expensive than what it used to be , but as far as I know you just pay the regular tuition and the flying is fully subsidized by the govt. As far as the credit for a semester from Georgian, keep in mind that it is just 1 semester and I wouldn't let that stop me from looking at other and better options.

The road ahead will no doubt be rough and at times will seem impossible. My advise to anyone starting this journey is to make sure that it is something you want with a passion because you will need that passion to carry you through the impossible times. In the end if you want it bad enough it will happen. Persistence and passion are the keys to success in this industry. Good Luck!

[mathias_now]

Thank you both for your advice! Are you both opposed to the Georgian Aviation Management program? Wouldn’t it show that I am dedicated to aviation and just didn’t decide one day to become a pilot. I was actually pursuing a b.comm degree and learned fast that the world of business world isn’t for me.(unless it had a twist of aviation) As for aviation, I spend the greater part of my day researching/reading books about aviation and or watching planes. I sometimes even wake up at 6am to watch "wings over Canada" I know this doesn’t make me a pilot, more like a dreamer, but I can assure you, that the passion and drive is there. I know from reading the posts that it’s a grind, and I don’t think I would want it any other way, as long as I reach my goals in a reasonable amount of time. Is tier 3/corporate attainable?

AC wow that’s a great achievement, congrats!

I would totally work the desk at AirSprint, but how would I go about that? Probably the best way would be to take aviation management at Georgian, no?

Thanks again, keep the well appreciated advice coming.

MN

[North Shore]

Dude, make sure you have a decent plan 'B' and a little experience in that field. Why not go to Uni, do whatever it is that your dad figures is good for you, and use the proceeds from that to fund your flying? Also, don't necessarily discount his bad experience - you may well face a layoff in your career... As for wife/family etc... don't stress: you've got years!

[Nightflight]

No not at all opposed to Georgian . In fact I don't know much about it at all. What I was trying to say was that you might want to consider a college program like Seneca if finances are an issue. I am assuming that you have to pay for all your flying at Georgian. Also Seneca is a degree program now if that interests you.

I too was in university doing something I did not like before gaining enough courage to quit and pursue what I had always wanted. Glad I did!

My plan B is my rich wife.

[mathias_now]

What would you consider a decent "plan B"?(haha the rich wife sounds good) I'll for sure take a look at the Seneca program. If you don’t mind me asking, where did you attend? I hear you about gaining enough courage to quit; it haunted my thoughts for awhile, but now I’m over it and have learned some valuable lessons. It def. worked out for you though, I hope I’m able to reach my goals.

As for going to university, my parents expect me to take business, but im just not interested AT ALL. My dad now works in finance, and that was part of the problem, he "sold out" because he makes good money now, and didn’t want to be back in that life. I know it’s not nice to talk about your dad in such a matter, but I’m disappointed. His office now defiantly doesn’t have the same view.

A wife, lol, I hope not! From what I’ve heard pilots have the highest divorce rate among professions. Although I probably wont have much money, I will need the little I have, and don't want to lose it to the ex wife. I've talked to a couple pilots and most seem to marry rich, I guess there must be something about pilots that attract high class ladies?

Any other opinions concerning the “B Plan”?….

MN

[Never Mind]

My dad... "sold out" because he makes good money now, and didn’t want to be back in that life. I know it’s not nice to talk about your dad in such a matter, but I’m disappointed.

Any other opinions concerning the “B Plan”?….

MN

mathias_now,

It was not too long ago that I too was in your situation. For years I was a walking 'nervous wreck' because of the choices I had to make and/or following through in aviation.

As for myself I did not go to college or university. For about 10 years I was a fitter welder. I realize that the trades are not a popular option for the majority of people. However, it gave me all the money I ever needed to pay for 100% of my aviation licenses/ratings. Not only was this a plan 'B' for the future but I was also able to stash away a lot of extra cash for those 'rainy' days. The last three years as a flight instructor have been one big 'rainy' day until recently.

Because I had absolutely no support from my folks I had to pay everything completely myself. Actually it was a source of contention between my father and I and there were plenty of arguments vis a vis and quite a bit of talking behind my back. I took my first flight lesson ten years ago, and I tell ya, that's a long time to argue with your folks. Right now I'm flying a Dash 8. I like the aircraft I'm flying, my parents have been forgiven, I'm making a livable wage again and I like the town I'm living in.

Never Mind

[PositiveRates]

try u western ontario Commercial Aviation degree program, seems impressive, with a focus on business that could work for both an active flying career or administrative/managerial position in aviation. Think your father would approve and perhaps help fund the degree because you also have a built in back up plan.

[mathias_now]

Never mind,

I hear you about the lack of support and flights with the parents, its horrible! It took ten years for you, I guess I should bank on about 20 from mine, lol they really hate that their only son, wants to pursue such an unstable career. My dad still lives in the past and by the looks of things the market has picked up. The pay isn’t the greatest, but there seems to be quite a bit of movement. At least you made it, and the dash 8 from what I’ve heard is a pleasure to fly.

PostiveRate, I’m going to check out the commercial aviation program at western. I've heard that there is very good money in management which would allow me to save money. Also my parents might be a little more willing to support me and Western is a much respected university.

It would be nice to have a plan b, that I could enjoy other aspects of aviation. If all else fails at least I will still be able to be around planes, and eventually hump back into the captains’ seat. Like I said above, I’m a HUGE fan of the PC-12 and would gladly spend my entire career in the cockpit that truly remarkable craft.

Thanks for your thoughts

Does anyone else have any other thoughts on topic of "plan b"? College, University, and for what? (I’m not interested in anything else but aviation)

MN

[PositiveRates]

check out the personal stories from graduates of the program and the impressive positions they got... think the folks would approve and again, gives you planB plus the commercial multifr. Should set yourself up nicely. Good idea to keep yourself unattached for the time being - you don't need distractions..

[Never Mind]

Here's another thought for you to mull over. One of my students came up with the idea of not only earning his Commercial license but also going to college for a couple of years for Paramedic training. Not only will he get a much needed piece of paper at the end, but he will also have a plan 'B' to fall back on if he ever needs it in the future that will earn an enviable wage. As well, with Paramedics as his background he will be a shoe-in to many medivac companies. Instead of working the ramp he'll make decent coin doing that for a bit then hop into the right seat. I realize that this may not suit you but perhaps a certain word or phrase that we say may make the pin drop and eventually lead you to the right path.

Never Mind

[PositiveRates]

NeverMind,
that is a VERY creative solution to this issue!

[mathias_now]

How do I check out the jobs people from that program received, is it posted on the site? Aside from that I would for sure consider being a paramedic, and think I would totally fly medevac if the PC12 thing doesn't work. Working as a flight paramedic would totally beat working the ramp.

I would much rather wonk on the corporate side of aviation, is it hard to get in at sprint/LCE, on the PC12? I'm sure they won’t hire off the ramp, or from office positions. I would probably have to head north to get the experience needed on the PC12, right?

PS. As for staying single to avoid distractions, you’re absolutely right and I will for sure keep that in mind.

I'm going to look further into programs keep the advice coming.

Thanks,

MN

[mathias_now]

Which would be a better career choice, sprint or LCE? How people would consider staying on the PC12 for their entire career, is it fairly rare? What more could you ask for, it has plenty of power…and its very tech .

MN

[PositiveRates]

http://mos.uwo.ca/cam/

there's the link for you, links to graduates stories on the left side of the page..... this avenue seems to have more of a corporate feel to it,

but, paramedic, check it out, they make lots of money and they have substantial time off in blocks like 7 days in a row, where you could take all your flight lessons. Also, while working you have time where you are waiting for call outs and ample time to study. You probably wouldnt need your parent's help money wise for the flying lessons, have them invest in your paramedic career (which is also great plan B) Like NeverMind said you'd be an excellent candidate for medevac pilot - some operators fly PC12s.

once you had some good pc12 experience, AirSprint would probably be quite interested in you.

[mathias_now]

Which would be a better career choice, sprint or LCE? How people would consider staying on the PC12 for their entire career, is it fairly rare? What more could you ask for, it has plenty of power…and its very tech .

MN

[Flaps 1 Billion]

Mathias, get on it now. The industry is hot but will slow down in a few years so now's the time to get moving. Forget the parents, I did the same thing. I dropped out of university in the middle of my second year, worked one job which lead me into a second job at a Tier 3 company in the office. From there I went out and got my first part time flying job and came back to fly at said company. After 4 yrs from getting my licence I now work for an airline.

I've been lucky but have worked extremely hard for it. Two jobs for 6 years to pay for my licence and the shit wage that came with the flying job. If I get laid off tomorrow there's many other ways I can earn a living. Don't worry about the parents, pay for it yourself, if feels better and there's nothing like going your own on something and achieving it. Don't be modest or negative about where you'll go, work hard and yes the PC12 will come and possibly more.

Paramedics make terrible money under bad conditions and takes a long long time to get into a metro job where the money is. Some might compare it to aviation, haha. Don't take the high divorce rate thing seriously, do you really wanna go through life without a nice girl? I don't.

If I were you I'd open Word, write up a good resume and cover letter and get yourself ready to bang on some doors. You'll need to work to pay off your training, why not at an aviation. Sprint has in the past hired people from the office that work hard and are dedicated. You don't need a college degree to answer their phones or work dispatch, just some drive and dedication.

This is a fun industry to work in, don't take things what people seriously. Lay offs may happen, they may not you never know which way your career will turn. Be positive and work hard, you'll be amazed how things will fall into your lap with such an attitude. Find a woman that's open for such a life and open to move.

Sorry if I sound negative towards the education thing, I'm not, I just believe this industry puts too much focus on a back up plan. An aviation program isn't much of a back up is it? Ya it might help you win AC's lottery but that's about it.

[mathias_now]

Flaps 1 Billion,

Wow, thanks for the detailed response. I really appreciate your input. I’ll call the local flight school today and see when the next ground school starts. What kind of office jobs are there at a company? Tier 3 that’s a comfortable place to be isn’t it? And now you’re looking to go into airliner that’s great, I bet you don’t regret leaving university now.

I don’t have grade 12 Chem, and I for sure don’t want to go back to highschool at 22. Like I said I was a business major, so all my classes in highschool were math related. I’ve actually heard paramedics be compared to pilots. Both can eventually make a good pay check. I definitely don’t have the stomach for being first on sense at an accident so that probably isn’t a career for me. I’m sure it’s very rewarding, and I respect anyone in the profession, it’s just not for me.

Really it seems like there are a lot of people out there that have parents who don’t respected their children becoming pilots. I do believe it will feel great to get my multi-ifr on my own. I usually like to play things safe, but have learned in this industry you have to be all in and just take what comes at you. Becoming a pilot I’ve heard referenced to “breaking the clouds in a thunderstorm, and once you make it threw the sun is shining and skies are clear.

I don’t know about a job falling on my lap, but that would for sure be nice. Every pilot I’ve talked to really enjoy their jobs, most of them only say the downside is the pay but say they would fly free because it’s what they love. Most of them also don’t have families to support, but hopefully by that time they will be making decent money.

……. What is considered decent money as a pilot?

I don’t plan on working for AC or anything, and I know it’s not good to plan out your career before you get there, especially in this industry. I’m certain that I wouldn’t want to fly anything over tier 3 and corporate would be my dream job, regardless of pay.

……..Back up plan, good/bad/waste of time?

Please feel free to provide more input on the situation….


MN

[AirSprint HR]

MN, check your Personal Messages.

AirSprint HR

[matt777]

Getting a BA or BSc or Georgian college diploma won't give you a back up at all.

A BA and a diploma from Georgian probably wont, but a BSc certainly will.

[mathias_now]

AirSprint has proved itself to be great in my books. They have an incredible chief pilot who is dedicated to his job, and is willing assist people with a passion for aviation. It's reassuring to know that there are pilots and companies out there who care. I’ve heard a lot of companies out there treat their pilots like bus drivers, or worse, which is a shame. Hopefully one day I will have the privilege of working for AirSprint. Until that day I will train and get the experience needed to pursue the dream. Be ready AirSprint because I will come knocking with the dedication and experience required by the company.

Thanks to all the people who took the time to provide me with their input. You’re all marvelous and I wish the people with the same, if not more, passion and dedication for aviation the best for years to come.

MN

[TG]

and don’t plan/care to have girlfriend/wife/kids

This is a bit like weather, you don't have necessary control over it.

[Never Mind]

mathias_now,

I don't mean to beat a dead horse here. It seems that you have a clear vision of working for Air Sprint. Your determination is admirable. I would like to also point out to you to another great company: Wasaya Airways. I was hired by them just this summer. I was supposed to fly the PC12 but was offered the Dash 8 job by another company a week later while I was still in ground school. It was an offer I just couldn't refuse. However, Wasaya is an excellent, reputable company. The Chief Pilot is very approachable, the pilots are a good bunch, the maintenance is excellent and yes, you'll be flying lots. The areas they service will provide you with excellent operational experience. I recommend Wasaya to anyone who wants to work for a reputable organization.

Never Mind

[North Shore]

What is considered decent money as a pilot?

Whatever it takes to pay the bills with a little left over each month for RRSP and spending - in the location where you find yourself living. YYZ/YYC/YVR are a little more than YPL or YVC, say...

Plan B can be whatever you want it to be, but I'd try to make it as recession-proof as possible (medical industry of some sort is good) remember, you are using it when Plan A (Flying) is no good..

My dad still lives in the past and by the looks of things the market has picked up.

Correct, but remember the disclaimer on all of your stock/mutual fund purchases :"Past performance is not an indication of future returns" Things are good now, but doesn't always mean that they will be.