Bill 203 in Ont, Street Racing

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:27 am

A friend that still lives back home sent this along, what's everyone think?

Interesting, how elected officials cope with a ".12% of all road deaths"
problem.... Wonder what they will do about the remaining 99% of
contributors??

This is from Saturdays Star Wheels section....have a great weekend

A hard look at the `street racing' law

Recent passage of Bill 203 will only be a lucrative source of revenue for
the government

Tim Chisholm
Special to the Star
Nov 17, 2007

Ontario Bill 203 was supposed to be a proposal to combat street racing, but
it's just politics at its worst.

A private member's bill was proposed in the spring of 2006 and was pretty
much shot down. The bill has always included the controversial issue of
"officer discretion" on whether the driver was "racing" or not.

About the only well-thought issue that 203 contained was making it illegal
to run nitrous on the street. As hard as it is to imagine, before 203, it
was not illegal to have a fully operational nitrous system on your street
car.

With 203, the system can be in place, without the bottle connected, but if
the bottle is connected, you are in trouble. Good on 203 for this: nitrous
is for the drag strip, and that's where it should stay. There was no 50
km/h-over issue on the Bill 203 proposal.

The elected official who conceived many parts of 203 is Newmarket MP Frank
Klees. Mr. Klees was the minister of transportation in the early part of
this century.

I had an argument over the phone with Klees in the spring of 2006 when a
"safer roads" bill was initially proposed. My argument was simple: the new
law could sink a car enthusiast who is doing nothing wrong, other than
simply driving his or her modified car.

It's because the bill negatively profiles the modified car enthusiast and
gives the officer full discretion, with no due process for the accused.
Pretty simple, a copper having a bad day can screw a car enthusiast simply
because he chooses to. When I suggested that this will happen often if 203
becomes law, Klees told me he "could live with that."

I was relieved that the proposed bill got shot down.

But then in May 2006, the accident that killed Rob and Lisa Manchester, and
which left their 8-year-old daughter an orphan, hit the headlines. This
accident took place in Klees' riding. The accident was blamed on "street
racers," reportedly travelling 150 km/h in an 80 km/h zone when Manchester
made a left-hand turn into the path of the two "racers."

With the Manchester deaths, there was no way the government could continue
to brush off 203 and Klees, and understandably so. Street racing killed two
members of Klees' own riding and he was the man already pushing the
proposal.

By the spring of this year, you'd have to be on another planet to not
realize that 203 was going through. The media wheel was turning at full
speed every accident headline involving "speed" was replaced with "street
racing."

We had Prime Minister Stephen Harper spewing the term, Premier Dalton
McGuinty following suit, and (now former) attorney-general Michael Bryant
was threatening to crush cars. Then OPP chief Julian Fantino chimed in with
"50 km/h over is street racing," in his opinion, and he wants a plane.

By June 2007, those of us in the enthusiast community were pointing out that
only 0.12 per cent of traffic deaths are related to "street racing," and
"What the hell is the inspiration for these draconian proposals?" And then
whammo, Bill 203 gets royal assent. And funny, just before it received
assent, the 50 km/h-over penalties were added.

In an interesting feat of timing, the boys charged in the influential
accident that killed the Manchesters were due for sentencing right around
the time that Bill 203's provisions were to become official.

Then a few facts started coming out. The boys were not doing 150 km/h, but
actually 112 km/h. Manchester was drunk, twice over the limit. The judge
ruled that the boys were not street racing, and that Manchester's alcohol
level was a factor.

You have to wonder how Manchester's condition was overlooked, considering
his death was exploited as a result of "street racers" for 14 months. When
the fact is, had Manchester lived, he would have been facing serious DUI
charges. I'm sure everyone involved will claim they didn't know, but I will
always be convinced that it was nothing more than politics at its worst.

I understand that, as of last week, more than 1,300 vehicles have been
seized under the new legislation. I'm not sure how many were "street racing"
versus driving 50 km/h-over, but at $2,000 a judgment, it seems that Fantino
might have just paid for that plane he wanted. And we will all be reminded
how much safer our roads are now.

Those who express shock and outrage at people brushing off 130-140-150 km/h
as not being that fast in today's machinery will find that the new "street
racing" legislation will morph as time goes by.

And they may express more shock and outrage when they nonchalantly coast
down an 80 km/h back road on a Sunday drive, inadvertently speed up to 100
km/h as they coast down a hill and get dinged for 50 km/h over as they enter
a 50 km/h zone where the OPP are hiding. They'll then get a life-altering
financial burden under legislation designed to combat street racers and make
roads safer.

The car enthusiast community will continue to fight this new legislation.
The law leaving the officer to be judge and jury on the side of the road and
levy these types of punishments violates our Charter of Rights.

Similar laws are in place in Florida, and recently a judge there ruled in a
case that the "street racing" charges made at the discretion of the officer
were "unconstitutional."

So it's only a matter of time before our new visionless law gets scrapped.

It's a real shame when politicians lack vision and common sense and make
knee-jerk decisions based on their heart strings. It's even worse when they
let law enforcement swoop in and capitalize on a potential cash cow.

It's not about making our roads safer and ridding the roads of street
racers. The ERASE (Eliminate Racing Activities on Streets Everywhere)
project was designed to do that.

When ERASE ran out of applicable fines for the 0.12 per cent of trouble on
the road, police started hanging out at the racetrack entrances to hassle
and fine drivers who were taking it to the track. Yep, the program
encouraging you to take it to the track was trying to bust you when you took
it to the track.

For what it's worth, along with being a car freak, I'm a 40-year-old
business professional, husband and homeowner.

And I haven't had a traffic violation charge in more than 20 years. And I am
mad as hell that this legislation was passed.

My late father (also an enthusiast) taught me that the roads are a dangerous
place. The highways are even more dangerous. The cars I was raised around
were dangerous they could kill you in a second.

No crumple zones, no ABS, no traction control, no airbags, some had no
seatbelts, and none of them had eight cupholders or GPS. I was also informed
early on that I would be learning to drive with a manual gearbox.

Maybe it's time to take a step back in what we promote. I've heard some
suggest that head injuries in professional hockey today could be improved if
helmets were not mandatory. Pretty simple theory: you give much more respect
for others' safety when you're not wrapped up in a suit of armour.

Today's roads are seriously dangerous and will not become safer. And no
matter what the manufacturers tell you, the car will not save you.

Deal with it responsibly or stay off the road.

Wheels reader Tim Chisholm drives a VW Rabbit and a modified Ford Mustang
GT and a Morgan Plus8.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:45 am

I think, as time goes by, you'll see this law actually be the cause of some needless deaths on our highways. Picture some kid on his crotch rocket, cruising up a quiet highway, several kicks over the posted. Opposite direction radar car's brake light go on, roof lights lite up. Being prone to youthful decision making errors, our young biker "opens the taps" and makes a mad dash for freedom, and his licence. Not too bright, but too late, as a family of five in a clapped out Chev wagon is making a pass on a transport truck just over the next rise. By now, our hero is traveling at 150-160 ks, just a few seconds after seeing the radar car......and, well you know what happens next.
Knowing full well Ontario's new law was about to strip him of his bike, his financial future, his college education, his football scholarship.....his life.

.300 Weatherby Mag · Post by **.300 Weatherby Mag** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:01 am

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Dominic220 · Post by **Dominic220** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:25 am

better yet... why would you "run"? Relatively, speeding is a game. In the city, it's pointless, but going from ottawa -> toronto, or further, it becomes quite beneficial; but if you can't pay the ticket/don't have the demerit points on your license... then do the speed limit? Are all bikers like that? Thinking they can oout maneouver/out-throttle the cop?

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:48 am

Exactly,
That article from who ever wrote that is just pissed off because now he can't speed to work. I am in full support of the new bill, When I am coming down the 400-401 or even the QEW doing 120K and I got guys literally up my ass because I am going to slow.
They deserve the fines that come with it, cause there the ones that are GOING to cause accidents, hell they do everyday on the 400 south bound going to work.

Also your friend doesn't know the rules very well does he, I worked with the O.P.P for 2 years doing traffic and Marine. If you see a guy coming at you DOWN a hill and your speed gets A LITTE bit away from you they can not give you a ticket, However if you come down a hill your speed picks up without any apparent interest in tryin to arrest your speed than your screwed.

GilletteNorth · Post by **GilletteNorth** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:02 am

In our society there are rules we live by. When driving, it's stop on red, go on green, signal when turning, OBEY the posted speed limit. The rules were made for the safety of the society, even you. So why think it's ok to speed (roadrace) in any part of a city where there are posted speed limits? =Rant=

Talk about responsibility... DON'T road race... ever. Don't think it's safer at night when there's 'less traffic'... don't think it's easier to see a car at night cause of the headlights (I'd say it's harder to judge the relative motion of moving bright lights than actually seeing the car as you would during the day)... don't think going to a 'deserted area' makes it safer... DON'T do it. You wanna race, go to a DRAG STRIP. But that's just too hard to do, take to much time to set up, you gotta actually make dates, set times, too hard to do to be part of the 'civilized' society. =end Rant= If you don't want to obey the rules... DON'T DRIVE.

I have no sympathy for road racers and I'm not impressed.

Flying Low · Post by **Flying Low** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:08 am

Personally I have no problem for big fines/jail time for doing 50km over the limit. This is reckless! I once did very high speeds on a southern Ontario highway and quickly realized that if one of the other drivers didn't realize how fast I was going and moved into my lane it would all be over very quickly.

Oh...and running from the cops. If you run...the fines and jail time should be huge. I hate it when someone runs, the cops chases and an accident ensues...and guess what...all of a sudden the media blames the cops. BS! The person that ran should loose his/her licence for a good long time. If that person does it again...sorry...no licence for you...ever!

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:12 am

Floats · Post by **Floats** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:41 am

When you're on a crotch rocket, at 160km they are pretty much as solid as a rock, as long as you keep the tiny rubber patches on the ground, and nobody hits you, you're golden... Through my own experience I found speeding on a motorcycle to be SAFER than speeding in a car, the bikes go fast faster and get slow faster. There is more going on physics wise in a car, a lot more variables and a lot more weight to lose control of. All bike riders aren't hooligans, but facing a big fine and a seizure.. i might be tempted to run!

Sorry buddy, but doing a 160 km on a bike makes you a hooligan and a complete moron, and if you run from the cops, that makes you a criminal.

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:02 am

Walker · Post by **Walker** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:12 pm

Dominic220 wrote: Thinking they can oout maneouver/out-throttle the cop?

On a GSXR600, VRF750, etc... you sure as hell can... I agree with Headly on this one, if were looking at the statistics and less than a percent of fatalities are a result of racing... how many more are going to occur from some young kid trying to get away... That being said bikes still pull that stunt, A few years ago I was chatting with a fellow with a fancy dancy super bike, one of the things he was quite proud of, he had built and installed a 10W wide spectrum frequency jammer.. so he said when the lights went on, he would flick the hidden switch and open the beast up.... VROOOOoooooom not a chance in hell he would get caught unless he hit something.

Floats · Post by **Floats** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:17 pm

First off, I dont give a rats ass who you are.

Second, Im not trying to go anywhere with you, I might end up in Jail.

Now listen Tard, if you wanna do 160 or whatever hell speed on a race track or drag strip, by all means have at it! But you make no mention of any tracks in your post. Maybe you should read your own post before posting them. I am not saying anything about your knowledge or experience with Bikes, and you are quite right, I know little about them. But this thread is not about Bikes, its about doing 50 km over the speed limit. And that is not acceptable

where exactly did I say I advocated speeding on the street?

right here.....

All bike riders aren't hooligans, but facing a big fine and a seizure.. i might be tempted to run!

why would you be facing a big fine on a closed track? which you felt so inclined to inform me, thats what you were refering too.

Floats

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:44 pm

Floats, 160 ain't all that fast. It's 100 mph. Under some conditions (I'm NOT recommending it here BTW) it's not at all unsafe. It's the "slow lane" on the autobahn! Modern sport bikes are very safe at 160 kph. Way safer than your 80 year old grandmother cruising down the 401 at 80kph in her Buick LeSaber!
You're a pilot, Floats, and you are going to sit there and tell me you haven't gone 160? I call Bull Shit on that one!
Bottom line, if I'm doing 20 over in a school zone, ticket my ass. If Im doing 160 on a Ducati some nice night on the open road, that should be my business.

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:27 pm

Floats · Post by **Floats** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:33 pm

Doc wrote:Floats, 160 ain't all that fast. It's 100 mph. Under some conditions (I'm NOT recommending it here BTW) it's not at all unsafe. It's the "slow lane" on the autobahn! Modern sport bikes are very safe at 160 kph. Way safer than your 80 year old grandmother cruising down the 401 at 80kph in her Buick LeSaber!
You're a pilot, Floats, and you are going to sit there and tell me you haven't gone 160? I call Bull Shit on that one!
Bottom line, if I'm doing 20 over in a school zone, ticket my ass. If Im doing 160 on a Ducati some nice night on the open road, that should be my business.

Doc, while I agree with you 160 on an open road maybe aint that fast. And Modern Bikes may be safe at 160. I'll take your word on this. But thats not the point. You cant control what other drivers are doing.
To use your example, it aint the fact that the 80 year old grandma is doing 80 kph that makes it unsave. if everyone was doing 80. it would be fine. but the average speed on the 401 is probally around 120. and cars on the same highway doing 40 kph difference in speed is what makes it dangerous.

Same thing can be said of someone doing 160, wheneveryone else is doing 120. Thats why its dangerous. I dont understand why this is so hard to figure out

The way you write this infers that everyone who does 160 on a bike in any situation is a hooligan and a complete moron. Again, that is your uneducated, misinformed opinion, not mine

To correct myself, I should of said "...doing 160kph in any vehicle on public roads is stupid" However I still stand by my point " If you run from the cops, then you are a criminal

But the track is a good place to learn how speeding on a bike is safer than speeding in a car.. since I have track experience with both, I am particularly qualified to state this

I'll take your word on this........... But my point, its not what you are doing, when you are on road, its what other people are doing on the roads. Not everybody is a qualified race car/bike driver like yourself, and in fact the vast majority are very poor drivers.

Again, maybe you should read the text and not the blank space that exists between. There IS NO DIRECT ADVOCATION FOR SPEEDING

ok, reviewed, there is no "direct"
advocation for speeding in your post. But indirectly you imply that its ok by talking about how safe a bike is at 160. Thats what I got from it. My appoligies if that was not your intention.

So lets get back to the original post. I think doing 50 kph over the speed limit is stupid and I agree with the law. My father was a paramedic in Toronto for 30 years and has seen more horrors in car crashes than I care to think off. He is my expert on the subject.

Floats

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:44 pm

If you don't run from the police, they may taser your ass, and you might die.

I jest of course. But, it is food for thought....

BoostedNihilist · Post by **BoostedNihilist** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:45 pm

Floats · Post by **Floats** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:05 pm

BoostedNihilist wrote: I hate getting all personal in open forum discussion.

I agree

BoostedNihilist wrote:
The bigger issue I have is with the fact that governments says speeding is dangerous to justify issuing tickets, yet the tickets they issue offer not deterrent whatsoever. I believe that if speeding is so dangerous 10km over the limit should get the same fine as 100k... and they should be severe enough to offer deterrent, if by their assertation speeding is dangerous.

Granted, speeding is speeding, But I feel they need to start somewhere. And isnt loosing your vehicle and a large fine not a severe enough deterrent?

(even though you don't give a rats ass

thats only cause you said I wasnt your buddy, my feelings were hurt

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:31 pm

Doc wrote:If you don't run from the police, they may taser your ass, and you might die.

I jest of course. But, it is food for thought....

Oh, that's just classic!

I like the debate though, keep it coming.

stl

BTD · Post by **BTD** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:15 am

Those last couple of posts got all warm and fuzzy.

Few people have actually touched on what the author of the article was saying.

He doesn't dislike the law because it fines people for going 50km/h. According to him he dislikes it because after 50km/h over the law considers you a "street racer" rather than just speeding and can then fine/points etc according to the new law.

He also brings up the fact that people can be profiled for having a car that looks like it would be involved in "street racing". The example he gives is a modified car with a NOS system not hooked up, but installed, on the way to the track to use said system. Cop pulls him over, the system is there and busted.

I don't believe that anywhere in his article he advocated that going 50km/h over the limit is okay.

My late father (also an enthusiast) taught me that the roads are a dangerous
place. The highways are even more dangerous. The cars I was raised around
were dangerous they could kill you in a second.

I believe also that the profiling is what Boosted was trying to get at. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Redneck_pilot86 · Post by **Redneck_pilot86** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:54 am

I think upping the limits on major roads would solve more of the problem. 100kph on highways, 120 on the bigger ones. Its what everyone is doing anyway. Then be more seriosu with the ticketing, IE 105 on a highway is a warn, 110 is a fine.

The way it stands, you aren't going to get a ticket for driving 10 or 15 over on the highway, so everyone does it. Then there is the people that want to go just a little faster, and this is where the problem begins.

Up the limits, and lower the tolerance for slightly over. After all, it IS a limit, not a guideline.

youngtimer · Post by **youngtimer** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:46 am

In Alberta, the powers that be are pushing to have front license plates put back on vehicles. (for those that aren't aware, we don't have front plates in alberta) They claim safety concerns, from school bus accidents to police safety. I call BS on all of it, it's just a tax grab. ALL our latest school bus accidents have not involved anything other than the bus, due to mechanical/medical/driver related causes. The police think it's too hard to catch people with only a back plate, too hard to read after passing opposite direction. Well, when I see a radar van every other day on a major highway, at the bottom of a hill where the speed limit drops 20k, I have little simpathy for them or expect they are doing anything other than trying to make money. We do have very stiff penalties for doing 50kmh over the limit, which normally includes suspensions, also at the discretion of the officer. This has, in my experience, been both good and bad. I've gotten in very little trouble for doing well over 50kmh on a busy highway in a big old boat of a car with no speedo at only 17-18 years old and yet an aquaintance (30-40yrs old) lost his license for a month for doing the same speed on an empty, straight highway with no other cars present, he just happened to be in a car built and designed to go that fast. Now that I'm of the age where I've earned the money and hopefully driving experience to own a sports car, I find I drive it much slower than any of my other vehicles because I know I'll get pulled over well before that minivan that's late for soccer practice. I trust police officers but not police as an entity, they have agendas and policys that, in my opinion, are not designed to do anything other than raise money. I may change my mind about that if I ever see an officer pull someone over for blowing through a red light at a busy intersection or cutting off traffic and nearly causing an accident, as those fines aren't as much and require too much paperwork, besides, they are usually, (in the city in which I live) by and large part of a certain age demographic. (I know that'll get some of the older viewers upset, but the city I live in has a very large proportion of seniors, and therefore the number of senior drivers is higher and accounts for a higher percentage of accidents/incidents)