TORONTO - Teck Cominco Ltd and NovaGold Resources pulled the plug on their Galore Creek joint venture on Monday, saying that soaring costs had made the big copper-gold-silver project uneconomical.
NovaGold shares plunged more than 40 percent and Teck's edged lower after the companies said costs could spiral as high as $5 billion. That, coupled with reduced operating margins due to the strong Canadian dollar, prompted the decision to suspend construction at the 50-50 venture in northwestern British Columbia, they said.
The new capital cost estimate is about C$2.8 billion more than originally thought.
"There's no question we're disappointed," Don Lindsay, Teck's chief executive, said on a conference call. "There's no question that when you add C$2 billion or more to the capital cost, from our point of view the NPV (net present value) turned negative."
The companies said they expected writedowns related to the project, but were still working out the amount. Lindsay said Teck expected the writedowns in the current fourth quarter.
Rick Van Nieuwenhuyse, NovaGold's chief executive, said on the call that the lion's share of the cost increases were related to "overall industry inflationary pressures on wages and materials," and because the tailings dam and water diversion structures "were clearly underestimated in terms of the time and labor necessary."
NovaGold's stock slumped $8.47, or 42.4 per cent, to $11.49 by late morning on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Teck slipped 60 Canadian cents, or 1.6 per cent, to $36.90.
The companies said they still viewed the property as a "substantial resource" and would seek alternative development strategies, which Teck will cover with an extra $72 million investment in the partnership.
Teck and NovaGold said they are not considering selling the property, one of the largest undeveloped copper and gold projects in the world. Production was seen by 2012, and was expected to be at least 430 million pounds of copper, 340,000 ounces of gold and 4 million ounces of silver annually for the first five years of operation.
Teck, the global zinc and copper giant, has now incurred $263 million in project costs. NovaGold has spent more than $400 million.
Novagold and Teck will split the next $100 million in project costs 33 per cent and 67 per cent, respectively, and will share costs proportionately thereafter.
The Canadian dollar has recently appreciated strongly, rising 60 per cent since 2002 and surpassing the U.S. dollar in September. Last month, Teck blamed the hot currency for a hit to its third-quarter profit.
The decision to pull the plug on Galore Creek was based on long term commodity prices, which are seen below where they are today, company officials said on the call.
"It might turn out that the mindset on long-term copper prices might change over the next year or two, but for now we have to make the prudent decision," Lindsay said.
Vancouver-based Teck said it is still committed to investing in British Columbia, but that it has not yet had discussions with the provincial government about tax changes.
Work suspended on BC Galore Creek project.
Moderators: Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, I WAS Birddog
Work suspended on BC Galore Creek project.
Teck Comino and NovaGold suspend work on B.C. mega-project at Galore Creek
Last edited by altiplano on Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Have to make a lot of tax changes to see $2.8B.
If the Canadian dollar is hosing commodity prices, and commodities are just about all we do, stand by for new ATIS message.
Better go south and buy that big tv, gang, coz the end is in sight....
If the Canadian dollar is hosing commodity prices, and commodities are just about all we do, stand by for new ATIS message.
Better go south and buy that big tv, gang, coz the end is in sight....
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
Chew on this a bit....
"Don't look now: Here comes the recession
Even with a boost from holiday spending, the U.S. economy looks shaky, thanks to slumping housing prices, Wall Street woes and debt-laden consumers. How bad could it get?
By Colin Barr, senior writer
Debt-strapped consumers seem likely to cut back spending to the point where it shrinks the U.S. economy.
Fortune contributor Ben Stein says the looming Social Security crisis is nothing compared what seniors will face with Medicare costs.
NEW YORK (Fortune) -- The cash registers were ringing on Black Friday, but make no mistake: American consumers are jittery, and seem all but certain to push the U.S. economy into recession.
After years of living happily beyond their means, Americans are finally facing financial reality. A persistent rise in energy prices will mean bigger heating bills this winter and heftier tabs at the gas pump. Job growth is slowing and wage gains have been anemic. House prices are sliding, diminishing the value of the asset that's the biggest factor in Americans' personal wealth. Even the stock market, which has been resilient for so long in the face of eroding consumer sentiment, has begun pulling back amid signs of deep distress in the financial sector.
The latest evidence of the long-awaited consumer retrenchment: Chic discounter Target (Charts, Fortune 500) last week reported a weaker-than-expected third quarter, as sales of higher-margin apparel and home goods slowed. Starbucks (Charts, Fortune 500) reported for the first time that customer traffic in its stores declined in its latest quarter compared to a year earlier. Wal-Mart (Charts, Fortune 500) shares hit a six-year low in September after the retail giant posted another wan sales increase.
With consumer spending accounting for about three-quarters of U.S. economic activity, some economists say it is inevitable that the economy will stop growing at some point in the coming year, for the first time since the mild recession of 2001. "Right now, the question is how bad it's going to get," said David Rosenberg, chief North American economist at Merrill Lynch. "The question is one of magnitude."
Not everyone agrees. Many economists believe the Federal Reserve will steer the economy into a period of slow growth but avoid a recession, which is typically defined as two or more consecutive quarters of economic contraction. Indeed, the Fed already has twice cut its overnight interest-rate target, and options markets show investors expect the Fed to cut by another quarter-point at its Dec. 11 meeting, taking the Fed funds bank-lending rate down to 4.25%.
Government officials have steered well clear of recession talk, with recent Fed documents citing instead the risk of "an unexpectedly severe weakening in economic activity." But Rosenberg and others are skeptical of the Fed's influence on an economy staggering under a mountain of personal, corporate and government debt. The economic recovery underway in 2002 was driven by low interest rates and abundant credit availability -- helped along by then-Fed chief Alan Greenspan's decision to cut interest rates as low as 1% in 2003.
Freddie, Fannie seek a few billion
Rosenberg said the low rates and easy underwriting meant loans were available to just about anyone with a pulse, so recent economic gains were more credit-induced "by a factor of four" than any other U.S. expansion on record. Now many of those loans are going bad, which is why investors are fleeing any debt riskier than U.S. Treasury securities.
Making matters worse, the banking system is coming under severe strain. Wall Street has recognized more than $40 billion in losses this year on souring subprime mortgages and a related problem, the toxic debt known as collateralized debt obligations. The losses could constrain the economy by forcing banks and brokerages to sock money away rather than lending it out to businesses and individuals.
Freddie Mac (Charts, Fortune 500), the big government-sponsored mortgage investor, provided some insight into that dynamic last week, when it said a $2 billion third-quarter loss had wiped away two-thirds of its regulatory capital surplus -- raising the prospect that the company will have to become a seller of mortgages at a time when the limping housing market desperately needs Freddie to be a buyer.
"The infection that started in housing is spreading," said Northern Trust chief economist Paul Kasriel. He says banks are extremely vulnerable to the defaults and foreclosures now sweeping American neighborhoods, with mortgage exposure amounting to 63% of U.S. banks' earning assets.
As a result of that exposure - and the hefty losses that financial institutions are going to have to take as more loans go bad -- Kasriel believes Fed chief Ben Bernanke is in a very different position than Greenspan was seven years ago, when the economy last showed signs of heading into recession.
"I'm wondering if Bernanke will have the same latitude" to cut rates, Kasriel said, referring both to the uncertain health of the banking system and the persistent weakness of the U.S. dollar, which is trading at lows unseen since the end of the gold standard in 1971. When Greenspan slashed U.S. interest rates in the early part of the decade, "the financial system was intact," Kasriel said. "Banks were able to extend cheap credit."
But with banks choking on bad loans, Kasriel doesn't expect to see the return of the easy lending standards that fueled the housing boom. Instead, he expects to see "greater risk aversion" that will slow credit growth and reduce the value of assets like property. He says the median U.S. house price would need to fall 17% to return to its 2001 level, which he notes was hardly at the bottom of the house-price cycle. A decline of that magnitude will further erode home-equity borrowing by Americans and, presumably, deliver one more blow to consumers' wallets.
The American consumer seems to grasp the risks. A growing number of Americans expect the economy to tip into recession in the next year -- 40% last week, up from 31% in October, going by a Reuters/Zogby poll released last week. Rosenberg said government statistics show that 500,000 self-employed workers have lost their jobs since July -- a greater loss than was seen in all of 2001. Reported unemployment figures remain low, but Kasriel says those numbers "smell worse than a week-old fish."
The combination of an emerging consumer recession and a heavily stressed financial system has some experts suggesting that a financial meltdown looms.
"In short, the financial markets are at a critical point," fund manager John Hussman of the Hussman Funds wrote last week in a Web site post devoted to discussing a possible financial crisis. "It's possible that investors will somehow adopt a fresh willingness to speculate, but my impression is that in the weeks ahead, investors will be forced to recognize that the recession risk has tipped."
Others are more direct. Nouriel Roubini, an economics professor at New York University who has been predicting the collapse of the housing bubble for years, wrote recently that not only is a recession inevitable, he also sees "the risk of a severe and worsening liquidity and credit crunch leading to a generalized meltdown of the financial system of a severity and magnitude like we have never observed before."
Such a meltdown, he writes, would include bank runs such as the one seen earlier this year at Britain's Northern Rock and the bankruptcy of some broker-dealer firms.
That view isn't widely shared, of course. Few expect Americans to find themselves out on the street corner soon selling apples. Jim Griffin, an economist who writes for ING Investment Weekly in Hartford, Conn., shuns recession forecasts as unreliable and believes worries about the nation and the financial system are mostly overstated.
Griffin sees this fall's turmoil as "part of the next historical phase" in the global economy, as the U.S. shifts from driving world growth to riding behind developing nations. He expects U.S. export growth to help cushion the blows dealt by the housing bust and related bad debt.
Merrill Lynch's Rosenberg is less sanguine than Griffin, but he too discounts the voices of doom. "We've had consumer recessions before," Rosenberg said. "The world doesn't end." Let's hope not."
"Don't look now: Here comes the recession
Even with a boost from holiday spending, the U.S. economy looks shaky, thanks to slumping housing prices, Wall Street woes and debt-laden consumers. How bad could it get?
By Colin Barr, senior writer
Debt-strapped consumers seem likely to cut back spending to the point where it shrinks the U.S. economy.
Fortune contributor Ben Stein says the looming Social Security crisis is nothing compared what seniors will face with Medicare costs.
NEW YORK (Fortune) -- The cash registers were ringing on Black Friday, but make no mistake: American consumers are jittery, and seem all but certain to push the U.S. economy into recession.
After years of living happily beyond their means, Americans are finally facing financial reality. A persistent rise in energy prices will mean bigger heating bills this winter and heftier tabs at the gas pump. Job growth is slowing and wage gains have been anemic. House prices are sliding, diminishing the value of the asset that's the biggest factor in Americans' personal wealth. Even the stock market, which has been resilient for so long in the face of eroding consumer sentiment, has begun pulling back amid signs of deep distress in the financial sector.
The latest evidence of the long-awaited consumer retrenchment: Chic discounter Target (Charts, Fortune 500) last week reported a weaker-than-expected third quarter, as sales of higher-margin apparel and home goods slowed. Starbucks (Charts, Fortune 500) reported for the first time that customer traffic in its stores declined in its latest quarter compared to a year earlier. Wal-Mart (Charts, Fortune 500) shares hit a six-year low in September after the retail giant posted another wan sales increase.
With consumer spending accounting for about three-quarters of U.S. economic activity, some economists say it is inevitable that the economy will stop growing at some point in the coming year, for the first time since the mild recession of 2001. "Right now, the question is how bad it's going to get," said David Rosenberg, chief North American economist at Merrill Lynch. "The question is one of magnitude."
Not everyone agrees. Many economists believe the Federal Reserve will steer the economy into a period of slow growth but avoid a recession, which is typically defined as two or more consecutive quarters of economic contraction. Indeed, the Fed already has twice cut its overnight interest-rate target, and options markets show investors expect the Fed to cut by another quarter-point at its Dec. 11 meeting, taking the Fed funds bank-lending rate down to 4.25%.
Government officials have steered well clear of recession talk, with recent Fed documents citing instead the risk of "an unexpectedly severe weakening in economic activity." But Rosenberg and others are skeptical of the Fed's influence on an economy staggering under a mountain of personal, corporate and government debt. The economic recovery underway in 2002 was driven by low interest rates and abundant credit availability -- helped along by then-Fed chief Alan Greenspan's decision to cut interest rates as low as 1% in 2003.
Freddie, Fannie seek a few billion
Rosenberg said the low rates and easy underwriting meant loans were available to just about anyone with a pulse, so recent economic gains were more credit-induced "by a factor of four" than any other U.S. expansion on record. Now many of those loans are going bad, which is why investors are fleeing any debt riskier than U.S. Treasury securities.
Making matters worse, the banking system is coming under severe strain. Wall Street has recognized more than $40 billion in losses this year on souring subprime mortgages and a related problem, the toxic debt known as collateralized debt obligations. The losses could constrain the economy by forcing banks and brokerages to sock money away rather than lending it out to businesses and individuals.
Freddie Mac (Charts, Fortune 500), the big government-sponsored mortgage investor, provided some insight into that dynamic last week, when it said a $2 billion third-quarter loss had wiped away two-thirds of its regulatory capital surplus -- raising the prospect that the company will have to become a seller of mortgages at a time when the limping housing market desperately needs Freddie to be a buyer.
"The infection that started in housing is spreading," said Northern Trust chief economist Paul Kasriel. He says banks are extremely vulnerable to the defaults and foreclosures now sweeping American neighborhoods, with mortgage exposure amounting to 63% of U.S. banks' earning assets.
As a result of that exposure - and the hefty losses that financial institutions are going to have to take as more loans go bad -- Kasriel believes Fed chief Ben Bernanke is in a very different position than Greenspan was seven years ago, when the economy last showed signs of heading into recession.
"I'm wondering if Bernanke will have the same latitude" to cut rates, Kasriel said, referring both to the uncertain health of the banking system and the persistent weakness of the U.S. dollar, which is trading at lows unseen since the end of the gold standard in 1971. When Greenspan slashed U.S. interest rates in the early part of the decade, "the financial system was intact," Kasriel said. "Banks were able to extend cheap credit."
But with banks choking on bad loans, Kasriel doesn't expect to see the return of the easy lending standards that fueled the housing boom. Instead, he expects to see "greater risk aversion" that will slow credit growth and reduce the value of assets like property. He says the median U.S. house price would need to fall 17% to return to its 2001 level, which he notes was hardly at the bottom of the house-price cycle. A decline of that magnitude will further erode home-equity borrowing by Americans and, presumably, deliver one more blow to consumers' wallets.
The American consumer seems to grasp the risks. A growing number of Americans expect the economy to tip into recession in the next year -- 40% last week, up from 31% in October, going by a Reuters/Zogby poll released last week. Rosenberg said government statistics show that 500,000 self-employed workers have lost their jobs since July -- a greater loss than was seen in all of 2001. Reported unemployment figures remain low, but Kasriel says those numbers "smell worse than a week-old fish."
The combination of an emerging consumer recession and a heavily stressed financial system has some experts suggesting that a financial meltdown looms.
"In short, the financial markets are at a critical point," fund manager John Hussman of the Hussman Funds wrote last week in a Web site post devoted to discussing a possible financial crisis. "It's possible that investors will somehow adopt a fresh willingness to speculate, but my impression is that in the weeks ahead, investors will be forced to recognize that the recession risk has tipped."
Others are more direct. Nouriel Roubini, an economics professor at New York University who has been predicting the collapse of the housing bubble for years, wrote recently that not only is a recession inevitable, he also sees "the risk of a severe and worsening liquidity and credit crunch leading to a generalized meltdown of the financial system of a severity and magnitude like we have never observed before."
Such a meltdown, he writes, would include bank runs such as the one seen earlier this year at Britain's Northern Rock and the bankruptcy of some broker-dealer firms.
That view isn't widely shared, of course. Few expect Americans to find themselves out on the street corner soon selling apples. Jim Griffin, an economist who writes for ING Investment Weekly in Hartford, Conn., shuns recession forecasts as unreliable and believes worries about the nation and the financial system are mostly overstated.
Griffin sees this fall's turmoil as "part of the next historical phase" in the global economy, as the U.S. shifts from driving world growth to riding behind developing nations. He expects U.S. export growth to help cushion the blows dealt by the housing bust and related bad debt.
Merrill Lynch's Rosenberg is less sanguine than Griffin, but he too discounts the voices of doom. "We've had consumer recessions before," Rosenberg said. "The world doesn't end." Let's hope not."
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
-
sky's the limit
- Rank Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:38 am
- Location: Now where's the starter button on this thing???
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Kelowna Pilot
- Rank 6
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The spin-doctors are working full bore to spin the public perception that a recession is not imminent in the US, but it's becoming more and more of an uphill battle for them.
Recessions are a natural part of the market cycle. Last recession was around 2001-2003 and frankly we're due for another one.
I always laugh when I hear people say things will be good forever.
That would be nice, but it would defy all economic history.
Recessions are good in many ways... it's like a basement cleaning... old ideas get thrown out -purged- and hopefully new, better ideas and structures take over.
If you've got some money, you can also make a lot of money in a recession because stocks, etc., can be had cheap.
Recessions are a natural part of the market cycle. Last recession was around 2001-2003 and frankly we're due for another one.
I always laugh when I hear people say things will be good forever.
That would be nice, but it would defy all economic history.
Recessions are good in many ways... it's like a basement cleaning... old ideas get thrown out -purged- and hopefully new, better ideas and structures take over.
If you've got some money, you can also make a lot of money in a recession because stocks, etc., can be had cheap.
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North Shore
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 5622
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
- Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
The recession that is coming will likely make all others pale in comparison. This announcement by Nova Gold is probably the thin edge of the wedge, they are citing a high CDN dollar as part of the problem along with massive cost overruns. How does a corporation of this size not do due diligence and pad in for large variations in cost projections to get the mine up and running? The whole thing is absurd, but so is the world economy, so what else is new.Kelowna Pilot wrote:The spin-doctors are working full bore to spin the public perception that a recession is not imminent in the US, but it's becoming more and more of an uphill battle for them.
Recessions are a natural part of the market cycle. Last recession was around 2001-2003 and frankly we're due for another one.
I always laugh when I hear people say things will be good forever.
That would be nice, but it would defy all economic history.
Recessions are good in many ways... it's like a basement cleaning... old ideas get thrown out -purged- and hopefully new, better ideas and structures take over.
If you've got some money, you can also make a lot of money in a recession because stocks, etc., can be had cheap.
You will never live long enough to know it all, so quit being anal about it..
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sky's the limit
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 4614
- Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:38 am
- Location: Now where's the starter button on this thing???
That graph is pretty scary... I'm in the same boat - I was making great money the past couple of years, so I socked most of it away and got rid of most of my debt.... now, unfortunately, I'm at the high end of that graph mainly because I don't have an income while I'm in school....v6g wrote:I tend to be a pessimist as far as economics goes but I found this chart particularly enlightening:
Like most, I've made some tidy returns these last few years but I've decided to sit on the cash for the time being.
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Kelowna Pilot
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Agree with the idea, but don't count on it yet. A lot of the white, anglo-saxon dinosaurs in the mid-west and south won't be voting for Hillary and a visible minority like Obama no matter what.Of course the silver lining to this economic cloud might be that the Republicans get voted out of the US next year.
The debt chart above is scary stuff.
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North Shore
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- Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
What are the conditions on the graph? Does it include mortgage debt, or just big-screen tvs? What exactly is disposable income? Does it include rent/mortgage? Car payments? Food? Entertainment? If I ate at a restaurant every night, and credit carded it, I'd be over 100% right quick, but if I were to eat salad and macaroni at home for a moth or so, I'd be back in the green quickly, also..
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
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ottawa,kan
- Rank 6
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:14 pm
- Location: Kansas
Now don't be slammin the white guys. Anyway...either Hillary or Obama is our next president. I'm a guy who voted for George twice, and I regret it only in the sense that somebody better sure would have been nice, but nobody better was running. Course I didn't know what Rumsfeld was gonna be like on the ground. Anyway George is gone and so are the Republicns. I'd vote for McCain but not any of the other Repub candidates, so it'll either be Hillary or Obama for me. I'd prefer Hillary. I like my politicians corrupt. Makes them predictable. But don't be thinking a Dem is going to make the economic situation on this continent any better. Since when has that happened???
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Kelowna Pilot
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- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:48 am
The next administration is going to be inheriting a big mess with Iraq and the Economy. Personally I wouldn't want to be the next President.Now don't be slammin the white guys. Anyway...either Hillary or Obama is our next president. I'm a guy who voted for George twice, and I regret it only in the sense that somebody better sure would have been nice, but nobody better was running. Course I didn't know what Rumsfeld was gonna be like on the ground. Anyway George is gone and so are the Republicns. I'd vote for McCain but not any of the other Repub candidates, so it'll either be Hillary or Obama for me. I'd prefer Hillary. I like my politicians corrupt. Makes them predictable. But don't be thinking a Dem is going to make the economic situation on this continent any better. Since when has that happened???
However, as a white guy myself, I think a lot of white guys deserve a slamming.
It wasn't that long ago that a lot of people had serious misgivings about a Catholic (Kennedy) being President. And remember Dukakis? A lot of people think he lost because a lot of Americans didn't want a President with an ethnic name.
Too bad Gore won't run again. I think having a woman and a black guy all at once is just too much for the mid west and south to handle.
Ever seen the movie Blazing Saddles?
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ottawa,kan
- Rank 6
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:14 pm
- Location: Kansas
Blazing saddles was just typical of how the hollywood asshole crowd likes to poke fun at the south and west ( california is an eastern state). JFK was far far more of a violent foreign affairs cowboy than G.B. is. Let's see....he murdered the elected president of Vietnam. Tried to kill Castro how many times???? Anyway, my point was I'm white I'm a conservative, I'm from the rural west and I'll vote for either Hillary or Obama over anyone but McCain. Hillary has way way more baggage than being female. And Obama is half kansan remeber??? His Kansas mom met his Nigerian dad in the Peace Corps or something. It's time for the Dems. It'll suck. Then it'll be time for the Repubs again. that'll suck too. Definitely a tough time to be pres. But at least no mega hypocrites like dumbass Gore.
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North Shore
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- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
- Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
errrm, maybe I'm mistaken, but didn't the last Democratic president have the ship of state righted and sailing into fiscally sustainable waters? Until the Republican wrecking crew entered and all but enshrined deficits as far as the eye can see... That's the trouble with 'you-alls'..they'll vote against their economic best interests every time if it conflicts with their political ideologydon't be thinking a Dem is going to make the economic situation on this continent any better. Since when has that happened???
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
-
ottawa,kan
- Rank 6
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:14 pm
- Location: Kansas
You alls huh? Is that a code for something? It's true that Bill was way more fiscally conservative than George. If he could have just kept it zipped up, Gore would have won. Of course whether Bill was really responsible for the rockin good times ( fiscal that is) or maybe inheriting from Reagan or lady luck for that matter is another question. As a small business person, I don't see that who the prez is effects me much fiscally. Look at this current sub prime mess. Much harder for me to borrow now. Oil is up and the economy is sliding. Is that really George? Not the subprime idiocy that's for sure. What about the strong loonie. Is that your esteemed man in Ottawa or the tar sands in Alberta? Anyway...voting against your economic interest in favor of things you really believe in sounds admirable to me. Or principled anyway. Regardless...it's the Dems this time. Maybe we could start an AvCanada pool??
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North Shore
- Rank Moderator
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- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
- Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
Actually, now you put it that way, it does seem pretty admirable!Anyway...voting against your economic interest in favor of things you really believe in sounds admirable to me
In any case, people voted the way they did, George jr. is the pres, and under his leadership, the US is now in some deepening trouble..
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
