Some of you pointed out this route to reduce training expenses in the long run but... what's your opinion?
How exactly would you go about buying a plane to start training?
Can I even think about getting a plane right away or should i start the PPL through a FTU and then find somebody to share a cessna to build hours and continuing to the CPL?
Let's say I find a buddy that is also starting out and we decide to buy a Cessna 150... We're in Montreal, we have no flying experience, maybe just a couple of intro flights...
how do you go about financing the costs... loan from bank?
Where do you find a plane on sale?
just thinking... Ouch the plane is in "nowheresville" 800Km from here how am I gonna bring it in town, I got no license...
What's the cost of a decent Cessna 150? Insurance...
Who is gonna do maintenance...
Do I go still through a FTU but instead of renting I got my own bird?
Please!!! Excuse my ignorance, I'm young and inexperienced. Thanks!
How about owning a plane for training....
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain
Buying an airplane for PPL and beyond...
Marco:
So many questions, so little time...
To begin with, I would look closely at my motivations for buying an aircraft for training versus renting something from the flight line and going from there.
In terms of direct hourly cost (fuel, oil) etc it might be a little cheaper than renting by the hour, however on a "full cycle" basis (buy, insurance, hangar expenses, annuals, maintenance if something breaks, selling it) you probably end up in a worse off position unless you get a really solid deal when buying, hold it for minimal costs, and can sell to recoup a reasonable amount.
You may find that renting is actually better than owing from a taxation perspective, since the hourly rate you pay a school can be included in the tax receipt that they give you at the end of the year (17% off income) can be worth a bit in terms of a tax refund.
As to your other questions:
1) What to buy
- Buy a subscription to http://www.aviationconsumer.com - great reviews of all sorts of aircraft.
2) Where to look
- Check out http://www.controller.com, http://www.tradeaplane.com and then join COPA (http://www.copanational.org) to look at thier monthly classified ads for aircraft.
3) How to insure it
- Check with COPA about thier Gold Wings plan to see how much it would cost to insure yourself while training (if possible).
4) How to get it moved to where you are
- Find a local instructor who is familiar with the type and pay him to go pick it up and fly it home for you.
Good luck!
So many questions, so little time...
To begin with, I would look closely at my motivations for buying an aircraft for training versus renting something from the flight line and going from there.
In terms of direct hourly cost (fuel, oil) etc it might be a little cheaper than renting by the hour, however on a "full cycle" basis (buy, insurance, hangar expenses, annuals, maintenance if something breaks, selling it) you probably end up in a worse off position unless you get a really solid deal when buying, hold it for minimal costs, and can sell to recoup a reasonable amount.
You may find that renting is actually better than owing from a taxation perspective, since the hourly rate you pay a school can be included in the tax receipt that they give you at the end of the year (17% off income) can be worth a bit in terms of a tax refund.
As to your other questions:
1) What to buy
- Buy a subscription to http://www.aviationconsumer.com - great reviews of all sorts of aircraft.
2) Where to look
- Check out http://www.controller.com, http://www.tradeaplane.com and then join COPA (http://www.copanational.org) to look at thier monthly classified ads for aircraft.
3) How to insure it
- Check with COPA about thier Gold Wings plan to see how much it would cost to insure yourself while training (if possible).
4) How to get it moved to where you are
- Find a local instructor who is familiar with the type and pay him to go pick it up and fly it home for you.
Good luck!
Waiting might not be such a bad idea at this time. My advice would be to start your flight training and see what you think of the flying club's aircraft. You might start in a 150/152 and find that it just doesn't have enough elbow room for you. Maybe a 172 or a Cherokee might be better. Buying a plane before you even start your training might result in you picking up something that doesn't suit your needs.
With regards to partnerships, I have seen good ones and some bad ones. I bought my plane solo because I knew I would just piss off partners that don't seem to have the same flying appetite as I do. I suppose I'm a little selfish that way, so I opted not to take on a partner. This of course limited my price-range and also makes paying 100% of my fixed costs kind of rough.
I bought my Luscombe 8a to do my commercial after completing my PPL and never regretted it. I still own it 17 years later and enjoy it more now than I did when I first bought it. It's just a toy now (or my wife refers to it as "the other woman"). It definately did save me money doing my commercial since it has to be one of the most inexpensive certified airplanes out there; after all, an hour is an hour regardless of how fast you were going or how much it cost you.
As was stated previously by JAHinYYC, good places to search for airplanes to buy would be COPA as well as the other sites. Another way is to check the unofficial network of talking to one of the AME's on the field. Many times they hear through the grapevine about some good deals.
If you're serious about buying a specific airplane, I would highly recommend spending a couple hundred bucks on a good pre-purchase inspection by an AME. This could save you thousands in the long run. You usually get what you pay for, so beware of bargains.
If you want any more info, just PM me.
Cheers
With regards to partnerships, I have seen good ones and some bad ones. I bought my plane solo because I knew I would just piss off partners that don't seem to have the same flying appetite as I do. I suppose I'm a little selfish that way, so I opted not to take on a partner. This of course limited my price-range and also makes paying 100% of my fixed costs kind of rough.
I bought my Luscombe 8a to do my commercial after completing my PPL and never regretted it. I still own it 17 years later and enjoy it more now than I did when I first bought it. It's just a toy now (or my wife refers to it as "the other woman"). It definately did save me money doing my commercial since it has to be one of the most inexpensive certified airplanes out there; after all, an hour is an hour regardless of how fast you were going or how much it cost you.
As was stated previously by JAHinYYC, good places to search for airplanes to buy would be COPA as well as the other sites. Another way is to check the unofficial network of talking to one of the AME's on the field. Many times they hear through the grapevine about some good deals.
If you're serious about buying a specific airplane, I would highly recommend spending a couple hundred bucks on a good pre-purchase inspection by an AME. This could save you thousands in the long run. You usually get what you pay for, so beware of bargains.
If you want any more info, just PM me.
Cheers
I would do further than that - have YOUR mechanic do an annuala good pre-purchase inspection by an AME
inspection on any aircraft you're about to buy. He will compile
a list of snags and parts/labour cost to repair them, to make the
aircraft legally airworthy. Take that list back to the seller, to
negotiate to price.
Re-read the above paragraph. Twice.
This is what I did.
I got 1/3 on an aircraft and check the costs per year:
300$ insurance
300$ airport
500$ aircraft anual
1000 oil change and small repairs
I made 150 hours in that year, that mean 14$/hour + gas 20$/hour you can get 34$ for flight hour. The cheapest C152 is 120$/hour.
What do you think?
I got 1/3 on an aircraft and check the costs per year:
300$ insurance
300$ airport
500$ aircraft anual
1000 oil change and small repairs
I made 150 hours in that year, that mean 14$/hour + gas 20$/hour you can get 34$ for flight hour. The cheapest C152 is 120$/hour.
What do you think?
Re: How about owning a plane for training....
i know a guy who did that and now he's stuck having to pay for all the repair costs and 50 hr inspections and does not have enough money to pay for training.
Be careful of what you buy...
Be careful of what you buy...
Re: How about owning a plane for training....
An interesting point here, is the value of the CDN$$ it's a great time to buy an aircraft. I find the ads in the COPA rag to be a little over priced. You may want to consider shopping in the States. I've seen several nice 150s at the price of a new Harley! But take an AME with you! It'll cost...but it'll pay you back in spades.
These things never go down in price...so....after you train...you sell!
These things never go down in price...so....after you train...you sell!
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ottawa,kan
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Re: How about owning a plane for training....
I like Barnstormers (http://www.barnstormers.com) for planes for sale. You can buy a Cessna 150 all day here in the states for 18-20K USD. You can find them as cheap as 14K. There are probably 12 pages of C-150's on barnstormers representing over a hundred planes. Sure seems like cheap flying to me.
