Flight duty hours?

CF-UCK · Post by **CF-UCK** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:56 pm

lets pretend that 2 years ago i logged 350 hours in my log book in a span of 3 months (when im only allowed 300). If i were to send my log book into TC to get my ATPL issued, and they noticed that i had exceded my flight duty hours, what would happen?
Would they deduct those extra hours?
Not issue the ATPL?
Take away my licence?
Is there a good chance that they wouldnt even notice?

thanks

All Sides · Post by **All Sides** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:03 pm

Your allowed to fly 150 hrs. in 30 days, with a reset after 5 days off to 0. Check your CARS there is some latitude

Airtids · Post by **Airtids** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:20 pm

It's actually 120 hours in 30 days, unless the company has an Ops Spec in it's COM that allows the bump to 150. Either way, looks like you're clean. Where was your CP on this?

CF-UCK · Post by **CF-UCK** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:07 pm

what ever happend to the 300hours in 90 days requirement then?
either way, what are the consequences if you have exceded your duty hours, even if it was a long time ago?

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:00 pm

They won't check that. They don't have time for that. Just make sure your totals add up properly and you won't have a problem.

They really like electronic logbooks from my experience.

Question- I heard you're not supposed to log XC and instrument at the same time. I said that was BS but could it be true?

CF-UCK · Post by **CF-UCK** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:08 pm

Hot Fuel · Post by **Hot Fuel** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:25 pm

Assuming you are operating under 703 Regs...

60 hours in any 7 consecutive days
150 hours in any 30 consecutive days
210 hours in any 42 consecutive days
450 hours in any 90 consecutive days
900 hours in any 180 consecutive days
1200 hours in any 365 consecutive days

The accumulated 30-consecutive day, 42-consecutive day and 90 consecutive day flight times may be reset to zero if the flight crew member is provided with at least 5 consecutive days free from all duty, this does not apply to 704 & 705 regs.

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:32 pm

bandit1 wrote:Question- I heard you're not supposed to log XC and instrument at the same time. I said that was BS but could it be true?

That seems odd. Isn't a 100nm IFR cross country a requirement for the rating?

tired of the ground · Post by **tired of the ground** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:12 am

the above only applies when applying for a license/rating. You can't double dip. Say for the night rating, you need 10 hours of instrument right? well, if you do 5 of those hours at night, they can't count as night hours AND instrument hours. You can still log them any way you want.

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:14 am

tired of the ground wrote:the above only applies when applying for a license/rating. You can't double dip. Say for the night rating, you need 10 hours of instrument right? well, if you do 5 of those hours at night, they can't count as night hours AND instrument hours. You can still log them any way you want.

why not? if you're in IMC at night its night IFR (instrument time). Hell even on a high overcast night in the North there's no reference to the ground, no horizion, no city lights. You're pretty much on instruments then.

I dunno, I log night AND instrument if I actually was on instruments that night.

Worst they can do is not accept. But I wouldn't understand why.

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:04 am

tired of the ground wrote:the above only applies when applying for a license/rating. You can't double dip. Say for the night rating, you need 10 hours of instrument right? well, if you do 5 of those hours at night, they can't count as night hours AND instrument hours. You can still log them any way you want.

This only applies for the CPL. Separating these hours is clearly required by the CPL experience requirements. I could not find this separation requirment for the ATPL experience requirements.

CF-UCK · Post by **CF-UCK** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:30 pm

Assuming you are operating under 703 Regs...

60 hours in any 7 consecutive days
150 hours in any 30 consecutive days
210 hours in any 42 consecutive days
450 hours in any 90 consecutive days
900 hours in any 180 consecutive days
1200 hours in any 365 consecutive days

sorry, but now im really confused. these are the numbers i have (straight out of an ATPL book):

60 hours in 7 days (airline or commuter- 40 hours in 7days)
120 hours in 30 days
300 hours in 90 days
1200 hours in 365 days

whos right?

phillyfan · Post by **phillyfan** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:04 pm

The higher numbers are with the ops spec.

185/310 · Post by **185/310** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:09 pm

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... ds/720.htm

(a) where the flight crew member conducts single-pilot IFR operations, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours;

(b) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

(c) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days;

(d) 210 hours in any 42 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(e) 450 hours in any 90 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(f) 900 hours in any 180 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(g) the accumulated 30-consecutive day, 42-consecutive day and 90 consecutive day flight times may be reset to zero if the flight crew member is provided with at least 5 consecutive days free from all duty; and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

(h) 1200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)

Then its different from 704/705 operations or if the company has op specs

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:04 pm

Forgive me for being ignorant of these rules, but to get " ops spec." to allow your pilots to fly longer hours do you have to show that your pilots are tougher than the average pilot, or dumber?

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:03 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Forgive me for being ignorant of these rules, but to get " ops spec." to allow your pilots to fly longer hours do you have to show that your pilots are tougher than the average pilot, or dumber?

I think that this system is designed (partially at least I guess), for seasonal type outfits. It can for example let you fly more hours in a month, say 150 instead of 120, as long as you stay in the 1200 annual requirment.

this is of course just an example, but you get the idea.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:12 pm

say 150 instead of 120, as long as you stay in the 1200 annual requirment.

Then it would appear that fatigue is linear and can be spread out over the year.

J31 · Post by **J31** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:35 pm

CF-UCK wrote:
Assuming you are operating under 703 Regs...

60 hours in any 7 consecutive days
150 hours in any 30 consecutive days
210 hours in any 42 consecutive days
450 hours in any 90 consecutive days
900 hours in any 180 consecutive days
1200 hours in any 365 consecutive days

sorry, but now im really confused. these are the numbers i have (straight out of an ATPL book):

60 hours in 7 days (airline or commuter- 40 hours in 7days)
120 hours in 30 days
300 hours in 90 days
1200 hours in 365 days

whos right?

CAR 702-703-704-705 it is 120 hrs in 30 days, 300 hrs in 90 days, etc. Flight Time Limitations CAR's 700.15 (1) http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... htm#700_15

CAR 702, 703, 704 DHC-6 non scheduled, or Heli logging with the "Ops Spec" in you can get 150 hrs in 30 days, 450 hrs on 90 days, etc. Flight Time Limitations CAR's 720.15 (1) http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... htm#720_15

Clear as MUD

CF-UCK · Post by **CF-UCK** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:59 pm

ohhh, i see, i see,

thanks

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:37 pm

So here's a better question because you have me worried

Have any of you ever been rejected or fined etc when submitting your books for the ATPL. I think I was pretty good at cooking the books but you know how it goes.

wtf_over · Post by **wtf_over** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:17 am

Just tell them you have BC mountain time after that it's all a formality

flying4dollars · Post by **flying4dollars** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:08 am

. wrote:So here's a better question because you have me worried
Have any of you ever been rejected or fined etc when submitting your books for the ATPL. I think I was pretty good at cooking the books but you know how it goes.

Unless they catch you padding hours big time...the worst they can do is not accept some of the entries. But apparently they dont look at EVERY entry. Just add up #'s to make sure you have what you need?

Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't gotten to that point in my career where I send in my LB yet.

Bushav8er · Post by **Bushav8er** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:26 am

Thats good for flight time limitations...anyone have an easy way to figure the Duty times? Ie. Consecutive hours in a day if...???

Eric Bradley · Post by **Eric Bradley** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:05 pm

You can use the FLTDUTY XLS http://www.fltduty.ca software to enter duty and flight times and it will check against the CARs and Standards for the type of operation you are in and warn of impending violations or approaching limits.

CARs are the Regulations and are in the 700's. The Standards are what the ops specs are for and allow you to use the alternatives indicated there instead. Standards are in the 720's.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:20 pm

wtf_over wrote:Just tell them you have BC mountain time after that it's all a formality

That's funny...cause we all know BC is the only place with "Real" mountains.

Flight duty hours?

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