accelerated training

[sg12]

I want to start training this winter and I want to do it full time, no job, fly say twice a day. I know this may be reduced some days because of weather, say maybe twice a day four times a week. Would it be realistic to have all training up the instructor level completed in approx 8 months? Is this just way too fast or have others done it?

[Cat Driver]

Why the rush?

[Adam Oke]

I did about 2 hrs of ground school a day and one flight a day. Monday to Friday. Worked full time at the same time and still from scratch to finished, completed in 7 months. (CPL + FLOAT). I wouldn't think I would be out for lunch if I had said one month to finish instructor training ... then again I have no idea because I didn't do it. Someone else care to give input?

I thought it was safe and efficient. Felt comfortable going into the flight test. Completely do-able.

[Adam Oke]

Why the rush?

Why stretch it out when it can be done comfortably at that rate?

My reason for doing it at my comfortable pace was to get into the industry as quickly as I can. I looked at programs from 2-4yrs in duration.

Initially when I was thinking about training I could either

a) Spend 4 yrs getting CPL + Instructor rating, pay food, rent, tuition, beer ... etc with zero income.

OR

b) Do it at my own pace in less than one year privately. Spend a little more but, get my instructor rating and start working. Thus I would have 3 years of say $15k/year under my belt + "experience".

Sounded logical at the time. And looking back it's still logical. All of my buddies from PPL training are still in school and haven’t touched a plane yet (thanks Sault). While I have been in the work force for a season and have 7 time the amount of hours as they do.


All in all I didn't get my instructor rating, and I went the bush route. I think I made a MUCH better choice. Love the style of flying, the type of work, and the new skills I've acquired. Good luck in your decision!

[Cat Driver]

Adam, what I was getting at was is it in the best interest of the industry for someone to go from zero experience to teaching others how to fly in eight months?

[Adam Oke]

Ahh the near-blind leading the blind. Gotcha. I know at 170hrs when I got my CPL I wouldn't feel the least bit comfortable teaching someone. I'm still trying to figure it out at about 450hrs.

[Cat Driver]

I'm still trying to figure it out at about 450hrs.

I've been teaching for around fifty years and still haven't figured it all out, so don't feel bad.

[Grey_Wolf]

I wouldn't think I would be out for lunch if I had said one month to finish instructor training ... then again I have no idea because I didn't do it. Someone else care to give input?

I know of some people that have down it in 30 days or less but they worked for it !!! The most time consuming part is drafting up the lesson plans (LP) so that they are logical and conform to TC methods in the Flight Instructor Guide (FIG). Most of the time, you must present the ground lesson (to the satisfaction of the Class 1 Instructor) before your are able to teach that air exercise. So if your slow on doing, or have to redo the LPs, then you won't finish that rating in a month.

When I did the rating, I did it over the course of 4 months due to working a full-time job. After working 50+ hours a week, the energy to fully devote to writing the LPs just wasn't there. I found that it took me close to 5-6 hours per LP to research, draft, self-present, proof-read, correct, and type it up/ put it on Powerpoint. Hope that helps.

[Cat Driver]

Why are there not standard lesson plans, that everyone can use?

[Grey_Wolf]

Why are there not standard lesson plans, that everyone can use?

Sorry No cookie-cutters here ...... there are basic outlines for what info the Lesson Plan should contain, but how content is laid out and the way the material is presented is left up to the instructor.

For you Cat, here's a sample Lesson Plan from TC's FIG, this one on circuits ....

Exercise 17 — The Circuit

Objective:
To teach how to fly a circuit pattern, leave and enter the circuit.

Motivation: As required.

Essential Background Knowledge
(1) Explain:

Circuit pattern including appropriate direction, distances and heights;
How to fly a rectangular circuit with emphasis on safety i.e.:

other traffic and spacing;

conformity to circuit size;

use of radio;

wake turbulence;

acceptance and/or compliance with Air Traffic Control instructions and clearances.

(2)

Consideration for leaving the circuit:
departure direction — controlled and uncontrolled airports;
application of Canadian Aviation Regulations 602.96, 602.97 and 602.100 (as well as A.I.P. Canada, RAC);

Procedures in control zones.

(3) Procedure to join the circuit at:

Controlled and uncontrolled aerodromes and airports;
Safety precautions to avoid other traffic.

(4) Procedures to operate in or through a Control Zone.

(5) Requirements to operate in Class A, B, C, D, E, F and G airspace.

(6) Special VFR circuit considerations.

(7) Question student on the exercise and clarify as necessary.

Advice to Instructors

(1) Insist on increasing aircraft handling accuracy and good airmanship, as circuit training progresses.

(2) Do not expect the student to be able to immediately memorize all circuit details and handle the radio as well. The instructor should do all radio work until the student has a reasonable proficiency in flying the circuit. Flight safety should not be compromised in order to quickly acknowledge a radio transmission.

(3) Because of the dangers associated with wake turbulence, proper circuit spacing is important, and the ability to make a correct decision to overshoot rather than accept a landing clearance should be impressed on the student.

(4) If the student has difficulty in judging the final turn into wind, insist on a shallow banked turn. The slow rate of turn allows more time for judgement, and bank can be increased or decreased as necessary.

(5) While circuits are normally to the left, proficiency in right hand circuits should be attained. Make sure the student knows where to find circuit information when planning a flight to an unfamiliar airport.

(6) When power approaches are normally made, the instructor should periodically insist on a power-off descent to improve the student's proficiency in gliding and judgement on how far the aircraft can glide.

(7) The procedures to follow when departing or joining the circuit at controlled and uncontrolled airports may differ. Be sure that the student appreciates these differences.

(8) On occasions when approaching unfamiliar airports, pilots may be asked to report over points which are unknown to them, but are familiar to local pilots, e.g., "report over MacSwains' Marina". The student must be taught to immediately advise ATC when unfamiliar with the local area.

Instruction and Student Practice

(1) Circuit Traffic Pattern:

Demonstrate:
how to fly an accurate rectangular circuit — drift corrections;

radio procedures — cockpit checks — look-out;

when circumstances permit;

circuit spacing — speed and circuit size;

pilot decisions with respect to:

wake turbulence avoidance;

overshoot;

acceptance and/or compliance with Air Traffic Control instructions and clearances;

instrument monitoring.

(2) Departing and joining the circuit:

Demonstrate:

correct procedure;

radio procedures if applicable.

(3) Demonstrate, when applicable, procedures for flight in or through control zones.

(4) Special VFR:

When conditions permit, demonstrate departure and arrival procedures.

[Navajo Flyer]

Private in 5 weeks then directly did the commercial in 6 weeks - full time. Instructors rating took about a month.

[Grey_Wolf]

Adam, what I was getting at was is it in the best interest of the industry for someone to go from zero experience to teaching others how to fly in eight months?

Private in 5 weeks then directly did the commercial in 6 weeks - full time. Instructors rating took about a month.

So in 15 weeks (3.5 months) after you started, were you instructing others ??

[Isis]

NOTE: The following is a public announcement made from the poster. The opinions therein do not reflect those of this website or its supporters.

There is one part about this industry that I will never understand or agree with: This obsession with the bigger, better deal.

"I got my licence in 6 weeks!"

"Oh yah?! I got my licence in 4 weeks!"

It's a flippin' pissing contest! I've flown with these so called fantastic PPL guys who are licenced in 6 weeks. In my opinion, they should get their money back!

Adam, you compare yourselves to your buddies still in college? I feel for ya, pal. If you continue to base your happiness on the success or failures of others, you're gonna be chasing it for years to come. Do what makes YOU happy.

I love flying. Period. I also like seeing my husband on weekends and planning/enjoying our life together.

Sorry... end of rant.

- Isis

[C-GGGQ]

I'm with Cat, Why? COULD you do it in 8 months, theoretically yes. Would you damn near kill yourself trying to, probably, Zero to instructor can be comfortably done in 1-1.5 years especially depending on finances and weather ( whoever did their CPL in 6 weeks must have had the most unbelievable stretch of weather i've never seen.) I know i wouldn't want to do it in anything under a year, then its a chore its not fun. and if flyings not fun why are you doing it.

[Adam Oke]

NOTE: The following is a public announcement made from the poster. The opinions therein do not reflect those of this website or its supporters.

There is one part about this industry that I will never understand or agree with: This obsession with the bigger, better deal.

"I got my licence in 6 weeks!"

"Oh yah?! I got my licence in 4 weeks!"

It's a flippin' pissing contest! I've flown with these so called fantastic PPL guys who are licenced in 6 weeks. In my opinion, they should get their money back!

Adam, you compare yourselves to your buddies still in college? I feel for ya, pal. If you continue to base your happiness on the success or failures of others, you're gonna be chasing it for years to come. Do what makes YOU happy.

I love flying. Period. I also like seeing my husband on weekends and planning/enjoying our life together.

Sorry... end of rant.

- Isis

Have it known I was not comparing myself to my buddies in college to base my happiness on the success or failure of others. I was strickly pointing out the differances of doing it at your own pace or going through a flight college. Pro's and Con's if you will.

I didn't just make a broad comment like your "rant". I backed my statement up and stated how I looked at it and why I approached it in that manner. I'm assuming you were a Sault grad defending yourself. No need to. You did things your way. I did things mine. We're both happy. I was once told by a world class contest pilot "It's not that it's wrong.....it's just.....different."

Some person asked for opinions. I gave mine. Hopfully your next comment will reflect the point of this thread as opposed to personal attacks.

[Adam Oke]

Interesting how people think doing something once a day, monday-friday, for an hour or two a day you would damn near kill yourself trying too. I would think that the retention rate of knowledge and the stick and rudder skills would be more current as opposed to say ...2 hrs a week. No? Someone fill me in.

I was comfortable doing what fit for me. It was never a chore. 2hrs of ground school and 1-2hrs of flying a day. Monday-Friday. People are different and may need to do things every other day, once a week to sit on information. Also depends how old you are. Younger folk have a better retention rate than older folk. Older guys and girls have the 2 steps forward one step back dance while training. Younger folk training is more fluent. That's common knowledge. What makes flying any different?

Let’s make this example of a person learning to drive a car. The person that drives every day will be a by far much more efficient driver. The person that drives once a month will not. It's simple to look at. Why people don't see this...I don't know. How ever it's your money. Do as you wish.

[flight instructor]

Do it at your own pace. All students are differents.

Some feel very confortable to take the training slowly, and want to take their time to study.

Others lose interest when the progression is not fast enough.

Some can learn very quickly and doing the training in a short period is not an issue at all.

Some will have to do and redo the exercises to master them.

If you want to do your training in a short period why not! Wait to finish your PPL though to know what are your learning abilities and to know really how long time you will need.

If you do your training within 10 months, it doesn' t mean that you have less knowledge, less skills than an other that has done his training in 18 months.

Personnaly I found the students flying very regularly (every day) better than the ones flying each 2 weeks. Again here there are exceptions.

Doing your training in a long period of time doesn' t mean necessarily that you are going to learn more.
And 90% of the students when they graduate, have the minimum knowledge that transport Canada requires( that is quite low but enough for a first job on single VFR) and continue to learn when later they fly turboprop, jet.
And for those 90% there is no use to get your basic license in 2-3 years (I don' t speak about the college program here).

BUT if you feel like that you want to enter deeply into all the subjects and learn more than what TC asks you, 8 months that' s not enough.

[C-GGGQ]

I did my training off and on for 5 years, when i went i was at the airport for almost 8 hours some days between flying and ground school. Those were some long days (not unbearable though) As I said CAN a person learn that fast most definately. However Find me a place in Canada where you can train and fly 7 days a week for 8 strait months. Sometimes I was out a month because of weather. thats where my 1-1.5 year figure comes in.

[Isis]

Thank you Adam for attaching my post. Yes, it was a personal rant and opinion. Did you not read the disclaimer before hand? I thought that's what forums were all about. It was on topic! The question posed was pros and cons of going it fast. You listed several pros (good for you). I listed several cons - some of which I have personally experienced. I have instructed several students who earned their PPL in 6 weeks. Could have been ab-initio students based on their performance.

My apologies if you took my rant personal, I just pointed out an observation that I had whilst reading your comments.

Bottom line, this industry doesn't care where you come from, or where you did your training. Yes, that's a broad statement, I know there are exceptions to the rule. You need to find a route that works for you, your learning style, and your wallet.

Obviously, we are all going to be fans of the routes that we took. Which is why you come onto a forum looking for varying opinions.

- Isis

[Navajo Flyer]

I took some timeoff between the commercial and the instructors rating so it was about 6 months in total from the start of the private to instructors rating. All ground school and flying was done one on one. Dedicated flight instructor. I already had a college diploma and didn't want to waste my time in getting started in a career. The shorter the time between flights the better, less review needed. Some people learn at different rates. Generally when you start, the flights have to be kept short due to saturation. Time building was flying approx. 7 or 8 hours / day some days. Transport could't even keep up with the paperwork!!! Weather wasn't too much of a factor - did my training on the Prairies, generally better weather then other areas. As far as the total time from PPL to instructors goes, all you need is to be able to regurigitate(sp?) what you learned as you went through. Reg's and everything should still be reasonably fresh. That's the way the system is set up - you don't need experience to be a flight instructor. I' don't agree with it but that's the way it is, kinda the blind leading the blind.

[Adam Oke]

Bottom line, this industry doesn't care where you come from, where you did your training, or how long it took you. Yes, that's a broad statement, I know there are exceptions to the rule. You need to find a route that works for you, your learning style, and your wallet.

That about sums up this thread. Thanks Isis. No hard feelings

[Cat Driver]

That's the way the system is set up - you don't need experience to be a flight instructor.

Part of the reason for this situation may be because there are so many people in TC flight training making the policies that never really did anything but instruct.

I could name a few from my region who fit that mold.

Anyhow that is the way it is so do not worry about quality in instructing, just learn to parrot whatever they want.

So now that I think about it the faster you can get from zero experience to a full fledged instructor the sooner you can teach the subject.

Then if you fail in industry as an instructor and you were a real loyal ass kisser you can go to TC and ensure that nothing changes.

[BoostedNihilist]

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[Cat Driver]

Boosted, what does that have to do with the the fact that you can go from zero to teaching without having ever worked in the industry to gain some experience?

Or are you satisfied with students teaching students?

[BoostedNihilist]

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