This forum is for non aviation related topics, political debate, random thoughts, and everything else that just doesn't seem to fit in the normal forums. ALL FORUM RULES STILL APPLY.
I am a friend of the family of one of the victims for whom Pickton has been found guilty of second degree murder. I've been following the news, obviously, with mixed emotions and a lot of empathy. I have to say I was disappointed in all six findings of second degree, as opposed to first degree murder ... and also disappointed that the families of the other Pickton Farm victims may not get their day in court - although I understand there may be many reasons for this. I was, however, very glad to see the judge serve him with life, and no chance at parole for 25 years.
During the trial, nothing came out about motivation for the crimes, and perhaps this is the reason for second degree, instead of first degree murder convictions. Then in todays paper ...
Convicted serial killer Robert (Willie) Pickton said he was put on Earth to rid people of their "evil ways" in a letter to a prison pen pal in 2006. Pickton, 58, was convicted yesterday of six counts of second-degree murder, but no motive for his crimes ever emerged at his year-long trial.
Two letters The Sun obtained from a pen pal Pickton wrote to while in the North Fraser Pre-Trial Centre, may provide the public with the first real insight into what motivated the mass murderer. The spelling errors are Pickton's.
"I know I was brought into this world to be hear today to change this world of there evil ways. They even want to dis-re-guard the ten command-ments from the time that Moses in his day brought in power which still is in existence today," wrote Pickton, who is facing another 20 counts of murder which are to be dealt with at a second trial.
So, if the Sun had possession of these letters during the trial, and they may provide evidence of motive, should these letters not have been reviewed at trial?
My beef is more to due with the concurrent vs consecutive sentences. My understanding is that concurrent sentences are imposed by law but I do not agree with it. The families should not have to show up 25 years later to protest his parole.
But you do bring up a good point, why were Pickton's motives kept from the public and courtroom? We should at least here a public statement from the Sun as to the reasons.
Dex wrote:My beef is more to due with the concurrent vs consecutive sentences. My understanding is that concurrent sentences are imposed by law but I do not agree with it.
I'm not certain, but I think in Canada you can only be sentenced to one "life sentence" at a time. This is perhaps one of the reasons for not prosecuting on the other charges at this time ... then, if in 25 years, Pickton should happen to get parole, he could immediately be charged with the other crimes and sent right back to jail.
Cat Driver wrote:Now the best thing to do would be to put him in the general prison population.
Although I agree with your emotion on this one Cat I can't agree with the method.
Why would we (the public) ask the lowest common denominator of our society (the general prison population) to take the rap for something we and our government is too gutless to do?
As defined in the Criminal Code of Canada, murder is considered one type of culpable homicide, distinguished from the offences of manslaughter or infanticide. [24]
In Canada, murder is classified as first or second degree.[25]
First degree murder is a murder which is (1) planned and deliberate, (2) contracted, (3) committed against an identified peace officer, or (4) in the furtherance of another serious criminal offence (kidnapping, robbery, harassment, terrorist activity, using explosives within criminal organizations, etc.)
Second degree murder is all murder which is not first degree murder.
Formerly, certain types of killings were also deemed to be murder, regardless of lack of intent (eg. where death was caused in the course of committing of a serious crime, such as sexual assault). However, these so-called "constructive" murder provisions have, by and large, been repealed or struck down on constitutional grounds.[citation needed]
Manslaughter is any culpable homicide which is not murder or infanticide.[26]
Infanticide is the killing of a newly-born child by its mother where the mother's mind was disturbed as a result of giving birth or of consequent lactation is a type of homicide but is excluded from murder.[27]
The maximum penalties for murder are:
first degree murder - mandatory life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for 25 years (can be paroled under the Faint-Hope Clause after 15 years imprisonment, but such a reduction is rarely given and is not available for multiple murders)
second degree murder - mandatory life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for 10-25 years (parole eligibility determined by the judge at sentencing) (exception: if the person had committed another murder in their past, parole eligibility is 25 years)
There is a clause where persons convicted of any "personal injury offence" meeting the statutory criteria to be declared a "dangerous offender." A dangerous offender is sentenced for an indeterminate period of imprisonment and is eligible for parole after serving at least 7 years. An offender convicted of 1st or 2nd degree murder is ineligble to be declared a dangerous offender. However, an offender convicted of manslaughter can be declared a dangerous offender.
Any sentence imposed in addition to a life sentence must be concurrent
Robert Latimer/second degree murder.
Willie Pickton/second degree murder.
Don't look right does it?
So Robert Latimer should have been convicted of First Degree murder for the planned a deliberate killing of his daughter he admitted to.
If you can't convict this monster of 1st degree murder, then who could ever be guilty of it? How many dead bodies does it take to preclude premeditated murder?
As far as holding off on the charges of the other murders, I want to puke. So in order to ensure that Pickton remains in prison, these families have to hold off on justice for their dead loved ones for 25 years?
Our justice system is a f#$^ing joke.
---------- ADS -----------
Back out on that road again
Turn this beast into the wind
There are those that break and bend
I'm the other kind
Evidence that could have led to a first-degree murder conviction witheld from the jury, says the man who who lead the Missing Women Task Force after Picktons arrest in 2002 ...
Not proceeding with the additional murder charges has nothing to do with keeping them "in reserve" so to speak in case he ever gets parole. It will be a straight forward, pragmatic cost - benefit decision.
First, is their evidence sufficient to ensure a liklihood of conviction? If there is, is it worth the cost of another year long trial? What's to be gained? It might help the victims families, but the other side of that coin is the impact on the jurors and their families. This is already the most expensive criminal investigation and trial in Canadian history. The investigation alone cost $116 million. They excavated every square inch of that property down to a depth of 10 meters and then had an army of anthropologists and their students remove every item of non-native organic material. There were hundreds of thousands of pieces of evidence collected, and thousands of DNA tests performed.
In the end, how the jury came up with 2nd degree murder is anyones guess, and I believe they are prohibitted from talking about their deliberations. Pickton got the same sentence he would have gotten for 1st degree, and will spend the remainder of his life in prison. Even considering some of the questionable decisions the parole board has made over the years, I don't think there's any risk of him ever being released.
No, my position is based on 30 years experience. I've never seen mass murderers like a Picton or Olsen released, and just don't think I ever will. They're also members of a very small fraternity.
