WestJet Union Meeting?

[CD]

Interesting...

WestJet Union Meeting

[invertedattitude]

Just out of curiosity, since this is an anon. forum, anyone going?

[Pajock]

Seeing that most WJ pilots live in YYC and points west of YYZ, where the meeting is being held, this seems to be someone stirring the pot. Something fishy here.

[ivanhoe]

Two words for negotiator.

I'd bet a thousand bucks that they won't even get 10 WestJet pilots to attend that shite show.

[KAG]

OH I'll show up, and tell him to stick his union up his a$$.
Unions are great way to protect the weak and lazy. They will forever destroy the great working relations we have with our MGMT. things like profit share and ESP I could see getting pulled, and we as a group would have to fight tooth and nail for every minor change to our CA. It would forever change (read ruin) this company.

If this company was run like ACE (thank christ were not) then we would need a union drive, but were not, and therefore we don't need one.

Now, back to my koolaid.

[invertedattitude]

While I agree unions are not for every company.

I shudder in fear thinking of my company without one.

[cirrus]

hahhha......I smell BS funny that this in YYZ which means that there only a few crew pairs there. Just one or two miserable guy trying to stir up the pot after they’re pissed and wining that YYZ is no longer going to be a base after the feasibility study and now he has to continue to pay for his own commuting. If you’re not happy here just walk across the street I hear AC is still looking for drivers.............and take your pissy attitude with you..........Happy Holiday !!!

[WJ700]

The only benefit to a union is the legal, medical and insurance. We have a group of pilots and management working on those services now; along with a new policies and procedures manual. I can't think of anyone vocally pissed off lately...

We also have a really good relationship going with our managers. So I can't see this as a real event ...


(plus its in TO??)

[disco]

OH I'll show up, and tell him to stick his union up his a$$.
Unions are great way to protect the weak and lazy. They will forever destroy the great working relations we have with our MGMT. things like profit share and ESP I could see getting pulled, and we as a group would have to fight tooth and nail for every minor change to our CA. It would forever change (read ruin) this company.

If this company was run like ACE (thank christ were not) then we would need a union drive, but were not, and therefore we don't need one.

Now, back to my koolaid.

KAG. What a well rounded and balanced view of what a union means to a pilot.

Seriously, I mean no offense. I would just like to ask you to consider for a moment that pilot unionization is responsible for MUCH with respect to both safety and monetary gains for the profession.

If you were well read on what ALPA for example has meant to this profession (real concrete events and concepts) you would likely agree that unions are not simply the devil you claim.

For what its worth...

[skyhigh]

if it ain't broke don't fix it

[rudder]

The only benefit to a union is the legal, medical and insurance. We have a group of pilots and management working on those services now; along with a new policies and procedures manual. I can't think of anyone vocally pissed off lately...

We also have a really good relationship going with our managers. So I can't see this as a real event ...


(plus its in TO??)

You couldn't possibly hope to supply the level of professional support and resources (Legal/Technical/Safety/Industrial/Legislative) that are afforded by ALPA membership and affiliation with IFALPA. ACPA has tried and failed. I wonder who will get you out of jail in some second world country if there is an incident?

If you work for such a magnanamous employer then put your current deal in writing and get them to sign it - it shouldn't be a problem. All future changes would of course be subject to mutual consent.

If Magna and the CAW can do it, then why not WJA? If it will make you feel better, add a 'no strike' clause with binding arbitration for dispute resolution. Employers that do not abuse their employees have nothing to fear from union representation.

WJA pilots would make a great addition to ALPA, and ALPA would be fortunate to have WJA pilots participate in all aspects of pilot representation in Canada. Most of your new-hires are already ALPA members anyway......

[tonysoprano]

I have to agree with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" on this one. So far, WJPA and management have a good relationship. Save your union dues (buy a headset ). Beware though that as a company grows, as is WJ doing, the talk of unions will keep surfacing. The bigger you get, the more enticing it might be. Take it as it comes.

[Bede]

Disco,

I agree with you about the union's safety initiatives. As for monetary gains, keep in mind that no one in this industry has seen real wages increase since the '70's. The companies that pay the best are not unionized. This is because they are not carrying around the crap that unions keep within the pilot ranks, dragging us all down.
Since wages are inversly proportional to employment rates, even if we did see an increase in wages, it would come at the expense of employment (which at this time is a moot point since their appears to be a shortage or coming shortage of pilots).

If you look at the labour market, professions with non-unionized employees are renumerated much better than those professions dominated by union. If you look at the auto and sector, it seems pretty clear that unions are going the way of the buffalo.

[bobcaygeon]

OH I'll show up, and tell him to stick his union up his a$$.
Unions are great way to protect the weak and lazy. They will forever destroy the great working relations we have with our MGMT. things like profit share and ESP I could see getting pulled, and we as a group would have to fight tooth and nail for every minor change to our CA. It would forever change (read ruin) this company.

If this company was run like ACE (thank christ were not) then we would need a union drive, but were not, and therefore we don't need one.

Now, back to my koolaid.

2 years in a union environment and clearly a pro at what your union has done/ is doing for you and your industry in the last 70 years.

Geez with almost a year on the 37 you must be rewriting the AFM for Boeing

I can say from my experience that unless you have been involved with ALPA national for many years you have no idea just what effect that union has had on the entire industry.

The Airline Industry (IATA, etc) & manufacturers have a huge lobby effort aimed at the governments of certification countries (FAA/JAA). These are aimed at only one thing, reducing costs. Things like safety are secondary. If it were not for various groups like ALPA do you really think things like ETOPS requirements, duty rest regs., Cargo fire suppresion, etc would be at the level they are today.

The NTSB makes many, many recommendations after investigating accidents yet only a small percentage actually are implemented by the FAA/JAA. I wonder why that is???? HMMM cause that would cost money. Look at the YYZ Air France recommedations, same as 30 years ago, put in an overrun. Politics and lobbying at its finest.

Canada especially TC, is the whipping boy of Airline Management.

To say that ALPA only protects the weak is an ignorant statement to say the least.


PS How many more 737's would be rolling over and impacting the ground if left up to Boeing and the airlines.

[express]

Go away Jimmy...

[express]

...oh and PS. Don't feed the troll!!!!!!!!!!

[BigB]

Bob,

Sorry, but let me try to understand. Are you trying to imply that, had it not been for ALPA, Boeing and the Airlines would not have rectified the rudder issue on the '37?

[bobcaygeon]

Bob,

Sorry, but let me try to understand. Are you trying to imply that, had it not been for ALPA, Boeing and the Airlines would not have rectified the rudder issue on the '37?

No, just that ALPA and others are needed to counter the manufacturer and airline management lobby that exists to influence the FAA/JAA. If you think politics isn't a major player your dreaming.

Has Boeing actually ever admitted a problem with the single PCU design??? Will they design the 737 replacement with only one PCU??? I doubt it.

[bobcaygeon]

Bob,

Sorry, but let me try to understand. Are you trying to imply that, had it not been for ALPA, Boeing and the Airlines would not have rectified the rudder issue on the '37?

No, just that ALPA and others are needed to counter the manufacturer and airline management lobby that exists to influence the FAA/JAA. If you think politics isn't a major player your dreaming.

If Boeing and "the industry" felt it was cheaper for a '37 to crash once in awhile than fix the problem, they wouldn't have a problem with that. You can bet the "cheapest fix" was pushed heavily by the industry on the FAA not necesarily the safest.

Has Boeing actually ever admitted a problem with the single PCU design??? Will they design the 737 replacement with only one PCU??? I doubt it.

[express]

Don't hijack the thread...

[BigB]

My apologies.

PS: Interesting...... me thinks CD is an AC F/A, and/or somehow affiliated with TC. Do your own DD. Search airlinecrew.net and checkout the memberslist for CD. Interesting.....

PPS: As for BobCaygeon, look at a few previous posts in and around the Jan '07 time frame...wasn't too happy with unions at that point in his/her life.

[wrc]

If Magna and the CAW can do it, then why not WJA? If it will make you feel better, add a 'no strike' clause with binding arbitration for dispute resolution. Employers that do not abuse their employees have nothing to fear from union representation.

WJA pilots would make a great addition to ALPA, and ALPA would be fortunate to have WJA pilots participate in all aspects of pilot representation in Canada. Most of your new-hires are already ALPA members anyway......

If you're going to have a no strike clause you might as well not bother with a useless Union. Like ING says, "save your money".
Having been a member of CALPA, PSAC & Teamsters as well as 2 in house Associations, I've got to say that big time Unions for pilots are fairly useless and just a part of the labour industry that feeds off the legalized extortion of union dues. Especially in a smaller airline like WestJet since large unions tend to listen to and represent the larger membership groups and ignore the smaller ones.

Now if you're a diamond miner in South Africa or in the garment industry in China I'd say Unions are a pretty good idea. But for a pilot in Canada you'd be better off finding a company (like WestJet) that works with everyone pulling in the same direction to ensure a long and happy career. The in-house associations may not have the clout and resources of ALPA but you're also not bled in dues.

[bobcaygeon]

My apologies.

PS: Interesting...... me thinks CD is an AC F/A, and/or somehow affiliated with TC. Do your own DD. Search airlinecrew.net and checkout the memberslist for CD. Interesting.....

PPS: As for BobCaygeon, look at a few previous posts in and around the Jan '07 time frame...wasn't too happy with unions at that point in his/her life.

Unions are not the end all to beat all but from the safety side you need a more organized effort than "beer and pizza" clubs.

Airline management and manufacturers figured that out decades ago.

[BigB]

So Bob, once again, please let me understand. Are you insinuating that WJ Flight Safety is a "Beer and Pizza" club?

[express]

...all I know is this...
1. the airplane's awesome
2. the safety department is high quality through and through
3. WJPA/management seem to work toward a common goal (s)
4. pilots are happy
5. work conditions are always a constant evolution...and the mindset/personnel in place have this in mind tempered with the long term good of the company and all our jobs.
6. maintenance is awesome
7. training/training department (yeah you guys on the second floor) I think are fantastic. Great to talk to and work with. Top quality.
8. focus on technology is priority (ie. RNP approaches)
9. flying at WJ is super diverse
10. ...do i need to go on...

PS. Union guy...