Has anyone here converted their Canadian ATPL to a JAA ATP?

[David Hasselhoff]

Under JAA regs, ICAO ATPL holders are exempted from groundschool requirements for the JAA. In simple terms, this means your only have to write the 14 exams and get your CAT 1 medical.....

My question comes as I haven't received my books through the mail yet (any day though) and am wondering if anyone has has taken this path can give me a ballpark on how long it took them to study before going over to write the tests....



Many thanks,

the 'Hoff

[Tomasz]

Hey it took me 7 months to write the 14 exams, mind up I didn't work and studied 7-8 hours a day. Good luck I recommend you get the bristol exam feedback questions, they were awesoming for the tests, saw a lot of similar questions on the exams.

[David Hasselhoff]

Thanks for the heads-up there, Thomas.

A couple of questions for you...

How much of the material was different from what you had learned up to your Canadian ATPL?

When you started studying for the JAA, had you written your SARON/SAMRA recently before this?

Did you find there was alot of material that was either completely new or was it just the same subject familiar in the Canadian aviation studies with a great magnitude more depth?

[.80@410]

The Canadian and JAA ATPLs are completely different.

The JAAs are the toughest things I have ever written, going on 3 years of studying, 1/2 done. This is due to working full time ..

Here is an example:

JAA: The wind in India in Sept comes from( choose 1 ) the : NW,NE,SE,SW

CDN: Big puffy round clouds are called?

14 exams
6 attempts at the exams allowed. 3 failures max each. 18 months from first exam. Mis any of these and you start over. 75% to pass.
130$ per exam. medical 500$ +
Once you're finished choose: A type rating ( un frozen ATPl) or redo your multi/ IFR ride, in the UK ( 6000$ + ) = a Frozen ATPL.

Good luck, it makes all other license prep look like a joke.

[Tomasz]

I didn't do the canadian ATPL exams, I only have a CPL and multi-engine IFR with 350 hours. I you have time or if you can I would recommend doing going to do the ground class part, although there are 2 of them and they last 2 weeks they were very important to me and passing my all my exams first time with an average of 93%. The problems that I had with material when studing were fully explained to me in the ground school. They only teach important material that will be on the test, they tell you the important things, and tell you the none important. I also recommend the oxford aviation training weather CD. good luck

[Leroy HOTDOG Zanzibar]

I just finished!!
The 14 exams took 6 months of studying full time over 2 exam sittings. Unlike Canada you cannot just write them whenever you feel like. You are in a big room with 50+ other people and only on scheduled dates the local Aviation Authority have picked. The schedule is different in each European country.
I did 8 in July, 6 in November. The exams are compressed into a 4 day period so it is almost impossible to sit them all in one go.
They are very time consuming and require alot of studying and revision unlike the Canadian ones. For the Canadian ones I did the 3 day AeroCourse and sat both my ATPL's the day after.
The amount of info you need to know is overwhelming for the European ones. Remember to take alot of breaks!
I used "Bristol Ground School" the books they have are good and the DVD computer based software they use is excellent!! When you load it you put in the date you want to start studying and the day you want to be finished by and it gives you a study time line and tracks your progress. Also gives you exams after each chapter that you need to pass in order to continue.
I paid extra for 2, 2 week revision courses before each set of exam modules. These revision courses were a huge part in why I passed the exams. Definately do the revision course.
I paid 3000 Euro total for all the books, software and revision courses.
Each exam cost 109 Euro each time you have to write one so pass on your first attempt.
The Class 1 initial medical takes 6 hours and costs 574 euros.
The final step is a grey area. If you ask a flight school the will say you need to do a commercial skills test which will require some practice ahead of time. Then 15 hours of multi instrument practice then a Multi-IFR flight test.
This is not 100% true! With a bit of luck a company can and will hire you on without this. All the above mentioned flight tests are covered as part of an initial type rating course. Pass the ride at the end of it and now you have converted your ATPL.
One bit of advice. Don't get sucked into paying for your own type rating with the likes of ryanair.
You are not even guaranteed a job at the end of the course. If you look you will find many other horror stories about them.
There are still many operators in Europe that bond you for a type rating, treat you well and consider you an asset.
It is not the cheapest thing to do and is time consuming, but well worth it!
Hope this helps.
Cheers.

[captaingomes]

This thread is good because I'm thinking of getting my JAA ATPL at some point. If there is more feedback from anybody else I'd love to see it! I guess getting the JAA ATPL will depend heavily on how the downturn in the economy affects the industry both here and on the other side of the pond.

[Captain X]

All answers will be told to you by your Commander in chief while you fly with him. Also I hear the mother-in-law is in the examination dept, if you treat her nice she might give you the inside track to easy street.

[David Hasselhoff]

thanks Leroy!

Captain X:

she will be liquidated soon enough.... now get back to cleaning that ho!

[Morav]

Can you write the exams in Canada??

[Tomasz]

No you can't write them in Canada, you have to go England to write the exams, or to any off the JAA countries.

[shower of sparks]

or in florida with one of the jaa/caa approved fto's.

sos

[Cap'n P8]

naples air center

[Morav]

What about getting the exams mailed to an EU embassy here in Canada and writing them there??

[Chuck D]

What about getting the exams mailed to an EU embassy here in Canada and writing them there??

The short answer to that one would be no. It's the same for a European wanting to write the Canadian exams, have to plan a trip to Canada.

[Jaques Strappe]

Is it a standard 14 exams? or do they have a system whereby the exam load is reduced based on experience? ie PIC in transport jets or heavy turbines?

[Tomasz]

It doesn't matter how many hours you have, its still 14 exams

[RB-211]

JS is correct.

If you have 1000 hours??? PIC etc on jet 100,000 lbs (737) or bigger you are exempt.

(You do 2 exams)

[.80@410]

Actually

it's 3000 hours, of which 1500 must be PIC.

.80

[David Hasselhoff]

Anyone have a specific system for tackling the exams? I have heard that the Oxford Aviation method is to seperate the 14 into two blocks of 8 and 6 for on sitting each.

I have heard different numbers used for the definition of exam sitting

1 have heard 1 exam sitting= 6 consecutive calendardays

I am thinking it my be different for certain countries in the JAA...

[Chuck D]

JS is correct.

If you have 1000 hours??? PIC etc on jet 100,000 lbs (737) or bigger you are exempt.

(You do 2 exams)

Sorry, but this is inaccurate. If you have 1500 hours PIC on a B737/A320 you may recieve a "Validation" from the issuing JAA country based on your Non-JAA licence. This validation is only good for your aircraft type and usually 1 year.

To convert a Non-JAA ATPL to a JAA ATPL you need to write the 14 exams, regardless of experience. I know this first hand, because we have type rated pilots with non-JAA licences and in order to get a JAA ATPL they must sit the 14 exams. Having an ICAO ATPL does however exempt you from the 750 hours of required groundschool.

[shower of sparks]

"Special terms for Pilots meeting the experience criteria below * have been agreed as an interim measure for the grant of the above licence until the Joint Aviation Authority have agreed appropriate new conversion terms.

*A minimum of 3,000 hours as pilot of public transport aircraft over 30,000 kgs MTWA on scheduled international or similar routes, a minimum of 1,500 hours of which must have been as Pilot-in-Command.

The restriction to fly UK registered aircraft only, may be removed when the final terms have been agreed, subject to any additional requirements being completed.

To apply for a written assessment you will require a ?JAR-FCL 680 pack?. The form enclosed in this pack should be fully completed and returned to this office together with a fee of ?77.00, your actual logbooks and your non-UK licence with the validating medical certificate. This form may be downloaded from the web in the near future.

We endeavor to complete written assessment terms within the published turnaround time of 10 working days providing all supporting documentation has been submitted. At this point you may submit application for the required written examinations."

on a different note:

if you do qualify to be exempt from 650 hrs of ground school, it would be prudent to say the least, to study all the material in order to sucessfully pass the exams unless you are some kind of wizard. this stuff is not easy. if i met the exemption i would still enroll in a course. there is an other exemption where you only have to complete 1/2 of the 650 hrs of ground school if you already hold a CPL with an IFR, but again you are doing yourself no favours by short cutting.

the CAA is probably the best licence to obtain of all JAA states from what i understand. it is still under the JAA umbrella. every member state has their own aviation authority. however you may find if you get a hungarian issued JAA licence (your licence and medical will say the state of issue) for example, a UK, german, french etc. company may not want to touch you. the more popular and well known ground schools are with the CAA anyways.

the link below brings you to th CAA's version of our AIM called LASORS (LAS = licencing, admin. and standardisation, ORS = operating req's and safety). in the first section "A" you'll find all the topics that apply to ground school and flying experience requirements.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS.PDF

sos

[Wburns]

+1 Thanks for the help.

[FriendlyBear]

I obtained my JAR ATPL after years of hard work, sweat and tears... I made each exam a clean pass on the first round. I studied for over two years straight. If you want it that badly, you will do it; however, I wouldn't waste my time writing these exams if you do not hold a valid and current EU passport.
The JAR ATPL exams make the Canadian exams look like a joke...
Good luck, you will need it.
FB