is it time for alpa?

why do you ask?

It's time for something. When the company delves into people's days off with no thought leaving some with a lousy 5 days off in a month it's time for something to happen, for the good of both sides.

Not a hardline union, but something that will give the pilots a fighting chance at having a life. Wives, children, homes, pets, personal lives are taken without out regard these days. Being short staffed and working hard is not the complaint, it's a part of life for many comanies right now. However, respect is not given, as evident from a the last couple emails sent out.

In order for the company to continue it's success it needs people to work for it. If people are abussed for too long they leave, it's rampant now. Something has to happen before there's a mutiny of sorts. Just walk into the pilot lounge or the lobby of the hotels these days and you'll hear about it.

Making a lot of overtime comes at a high cost, and I'm not talking about the taxman, more like the milkman at this rate.

Obviously someone is listening, everyone must have seen the message from AJ/CEO that was put out last night. After reading it and looking at CJT’s track record never doubted the company or what he has always said - it has proven to be true. I think CJT cares about family and gives us respect, what other aviation company flies their crews home on a charted corporate jet so they can be spend Christmas day with their families, never seen anyone else do that.

By doing “something” don’t understand what more can be done other than the CEO’s direct involvement and if you think a hard line or soft line union can help us…good luck, I am not paying out of my hard earned money to have someone talk on my behalf when I can talk to the CEO myself and get more action. No doubt, this is rough patch but by doing “something” we will screw up the best aviation company I have ever worked for in my life. By expecting that we should be totally insulated against every eventuality is unreasonable.

I see CJT as on organization that cares, yeah maybe its tough right now, but I have full confidence that actions will speak louder than words - they have always proven it…

I hope you're right. I'm not a union guy, but I do want my life back. I enjoy it here too and want it to be successful as much as the next guy.

Know doubt there are some issues here but over all things are more postive than negative. In all of my previous jobs, I never heard, met or even spoken to my VP/Director never mind the CEO. Here, am glad that the CEO is involved himself and looking at the track record I feel we will definatley get see some action.

I look forward to getting my bonus cheque soon......

'thanks for going over my head
enjoy the newest admin guide chage'

Morningstar is with the CAW and has been for years. Great pay, great schedules, great perdiems and its all because of the Union its members and its representation. And yes Morningstar brings there crews home for the Holidays as well.

It sounds as though it is certainlly time to get a Union started at Cargojet, for your own good.

well we are very happy the way it is. Thanks for suggesting the union. If anyone doesnt like it they should go work for better pay and conditions at morningstar. All i have seen is progress and continuous improvement in every area for pilots, customers and the company overall. Morningstar has one customer and if they lose it game over. They are sitting on 4 LOUSY 727 for ages. Welcome to a real company here. 3 planes to 20 now in 5 years. Caravans to 767 now. Only cargo airline to succeed in canadian history. Lets keep it going and try not to fix something thats working guys. Finally i have some stability and once more guys dont like then leave no one forces you to work here. Not perfect but no question my best aviation job. Yes cant wait to get my bonus again!

Actually Morningstar has 5 Boeings, 5 Caravans and an ATR-42 in support of the Fedex contract it has had for almost 20 years now. If Cargo jet pilots had any respect for themselves and the industry they would Unionize, it would only serve to better themselves and the rest of us in the industry. Your not doing anyone a favour prostetuting yourself out for below standard industry wages and working conditions. You sure have grown alot in five years, sounds alot like ACE. Look where they are now. Sure hope your not headed there as well.

Thanks but no thanks. Anyone with half a brain would not compare cargojet with ACE. Last i checked cargojet is a publicly traded company with 5 years of solid performance, and even rated 5star corporation by Globe and Mail. As is said my best aviation job ever and i am not alone ..most of us who have done the rounds can see the difference and feel great working at cargojet. Working conditions and wages are certainly above average but most important is three things...job stability, managemant lsitens and acts and continous upgrades and promotions and very soon 757 and 767.
ACE got CAW and see where it is. We dont need to pay someone my hard earned money to go negotiate my pay and working conditions and wait 5 years if there are issues. I can get an action from my VP or even a response and action from the CEO in a matter of hours. Eh we are not prostituting ourselves...we are the envy of the industry..just walk into our lobby and see the awards we have won in 5 years. I have met a few customers and i know how they feel about us at cargojet. Anyone who thinks Morningstar is better should stay or move there as we all have options . And while someone is counting there airplanes dont forget a few corporate challengers that the owners ( ward family of wardair) runs thru Morningstar .!! Wonder how many of you have ever met your owners Kim ward and company. !!
I am sure Morningstar is a great company..guys wake up there looking forward to going to EDMONTON in their 727. I atleast feel closer to my dream of getting in that 767 and spending my weekend in PARIS.
Please dont try to fix any of our problems, we are very capable.

Airwings:

What's an old 767 going to do for you. Take you further away from home?
Or are u wanting the glass time in case u find yourself unemployed?
You guys are still working as hard as the day you joined, all in the name of progress.
If Cargojet was a true career airline, they would give you a pension fund.
Your income trust fund is a bit of putting all your eggs in one small basket.(what is your rate of return?)
That's if you were on the right mood swing of the management to get it.
Don't you remember what as said to one FO who now works for Big Red (they have a pension and old 767's too).
When he went in to see Mr. Bollywood and find out why he wasn't given his trust units like most of the others, he was advised that one wrongful dismissal suit wouldn't cost the company much.(is he still friends with Vince Carter since he was traded from the Raptors?)
It speaks volume about the place when the #1 and #2 seniority pilots leave, when their future was so bright at Cargojet.
Where's Starjet these days?
Purolator stayed with KFC, not like Cargojet expected.
Two 767's will not compete with the Atlas, Southern Air, Air Atlanta etc on the World stage. You've got to fly full both ways.
That's why you're not flying to China even though you have the rights.
$110 a barrel for jet fuel means you don't fly empty
Open skies and that UPS freight goes back to the Louisville boys.
Protect yourself. Get some working conditions while times are good.
Think they'll let me write an article for "JetVibes"???

saltminer wrote:'thanks for going over my head
enjoy the newest admin guide chage'

Pardon??



Now to prevent any future confusion, I'm nite fr8, my handle cunningly designed using a complex alpha-numeric code to conceal my true identity. Clever.

The moniker NghtFrt on the other hand, exemplifies a more primitive cypher. By simply omitting all vowels, some consonants and the space between 'Nght' and 'Frt', the reader is left wondering "is it Night Freight or Night Fart"? We may never know.

Okay, enough joking around, just having some fun.

NghtFrt wrote:It sounds as though it is certainlly time to get a Union started at Cargojet, for your own good.

I've never worked for the company you're with. I'm certain however that we share a different relationship here with our upper management, including our CEO than you do with yours. I'm also certain that this relationship continues to make us unique within our industry and is in large part the reason we have achieved all we have in our short 5 years. Over the course of these 5 years, consistent improvements have been made in all areas through open and direct communication. So how is it that a union would be for our own good? I'm glad that a union was able to improve conditions at Morningstar but I'm sorry it took one to do so.

With all due respect to u i have done my homework where i work. i am not just shooting my mouth off as i have many better things to do with my life. So although i feel some comments are not worth answering, i am still tempted to tell some of you new kids what life is all about when you are positive and do your research !!
I have never been unemployed so dont need the glass time. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ABLETO FIND A JOB AND THANK lORD i found this one.
All i know is that the way cargojet is going the only guys who will be unemployed are who dont pull their weight not me.
Managemant here believes from what i see is that they walk before they run. The 767 are quite new ex AA and fleet replacemant in any airlines doesnt have overnight. WE have been told in 3 to 5 years we will have 767-300 and 727 eventually gone. Atleast they have a plan.
Two 767 will give us what no one in the marketplace has. !! overseas capabilities and lower fuel cost, lower maintaince and hiher reliability...all common sense. 2 is a great start and dont forget 757. When i chose this pilot profession i wnated to progress and fly , improve myself. I also in the process bargained that in order to fly bigger aircraft i will fly overseas. SO yes i will away from home. And sorry dont you know thats part of our job. Pilots at AC, ZOOM, WESTJET, SKYSERVICE they are all overseas...IF ANY OF YOU DONT WANT TO BE OVERSEAS THEN GO GET A JOB AS A CARGO HANDLER OR AIRPORT SECURITY. THEY GO HOME EVERY NIGHT !!

Yes cargojet has introduced a pension/rrsp plan this year. Again you are ill informed.
IF companies like ups, dhl,sameday, ats, brinks,ics and 200 other can put all their freight and eggs in one basket so can i.
Income trust is performing great. just compare to everyother trust and u will know.
My accountant told me the units i got free, has increased in value 75% since i got. 40% share price up and 30% dividends.
I assume thats what you were saying about the stock price...great so far.
If u read the prospectus and press releases mr. bollywood took 5 million worth of shares out of his pocket and distributed to all employees for free....i hvnt seen that before. yah and 3 people in the pilot group didnt get them and 2 are no longer there. I dnt blame the managemant
and especially AJ as to why he should part his shares to people who dont pull their weight, complain and are negative. Hell if thos guys had shares , i would have asked for double number of shares.

The two senior most pilots...good they left. . left for greener pastures good luck to him. Had they waited and had the confidence i am sure they would have been in 767/757.HOW about one of the top 5 captains left and is now back !! after doing his rounds. Wat a class guy and what a class act that the company welcomed him back.
From what i know starjet was closed down so we dont loose focus on our bread and butter business. We were told itwasnt very profitable and we tried it but got out as soon as we realised it. WELL a calculated risk was taken , mistake made and then corrected. HIGH marks to AJ
for shutting it down and have the guts to make that call.
Purolator stayed with KFC. Go get the real story from AJ as i did and i am not discussing this in public. All i can say is it was a strategic move
Go ahead and ask him on the next confrence call as i am not about to tell you guys.
I dnt think company wants to go Atlas route. From what my sources tell me they will be used domestically and selected international overseas destinations with full customer committments for guaranteed space and revenues. Thanks for telling us you have to fly full both ways. VERY GOOD ONFO INDEED .YOU SHOULD BE THE CFO !
Cargojet doesnt fly to china as AC started with 6 MD 11S that are down to zero now. the rumour is they lost 50plus million...
CARGOJET is not stupid so they dont fly to china. Pls do some readings. all airlines can have china rights now. Not sacred anymore.

I am not frustrated here but feel sorry for you guys who cant read stuff available on websites, confrence calls and whats in public domains.
Cargojet passes fuel to customers. So no risk. Watch Virmanis interviews posted on CJ webside. You might learn something about fuel policy of CJ. All CJ customers are big transportation companies and AJ says if anyone knows cost of fuel these customers know and have never hesitated to pay. SO fuel at 110/barrel i guess you are walking to work eh!!!
Open skies..hearing it for 20 years. Sure with all the mergers that are happening in US , delta and NW, CO and uA...sure their focus will be to let canadians in. and take up American jobs. Give your head a shake and read internet as to how against US carriers are against openskies as they know if canada gets it , uk AND ba ARE NOT FAR FOR ASKING. Each international carrier will want the same.
Sure US WILL MAKE THIS HAPPEN !!!!!!!! AND if open skies happen MORNING STAR gone. Atleast cargojet has 70% of other customers...
than ups. They might reduce thir size but will be around.
The only thing you guys need to protect yourself is illinformed negative guys who have nothing better to do than to disturb shit
and if you guys work at cj then go to the boss and get informed. And if you are outsiders then dont be jealous . W are absolutely fine and solid and wouldnt trade this for anything in the world.
JETVIBES IS absolutely great. Sure they claim they are very open company ..i am sure you will be able to write an article make sure you title is "pardon my ignorance".
Yah my kid enjoys the vince carter signed jersey that i got...and saw mmany customers kids etc loving it. Its called public relations and spicing up our lives and customers...
And mr bollywood is great and again he is also a good friend of Richard Gere. You want to see some pictures.? They do tons of charity work together...S now you can call him hollywood..Call him what you want he is the best CEO i have worked for. The man has a big heart and anything he touches works..turns to gold. So call him mr bollywood on top of all he has done at CJ he is an OSCAR/ACADEMY AWARD nominated PRODUCER !! People who argue and make fun of success need to experience one.

helmetfired said; "If Cargojet was a true career airline, they would give you a pension fund."

They did announce a pension plan, RRSP matched contribution, details to follow.


helmetfired said;..."he was advised that one wrongful dismissal suit wouldn't cost the company much."

??? Did said F/O threaten a wrongful dismissal suit? Was he subsequently wrongfully dismissed? Could this be partially misconstrued and completely without context?

helmetfired said; "Where's Starjet these days?"


Starjet was outside of the core business. It was relatively resource hungry and not as profitable as the freight operation, therefore it was not continued. Smart, don't you think?


helmetfired said; "Purolator stayed with KFC, not like Cargojet expected"

What were Cargojet's expectations? They bid on the contract, they just weren't the lowest bidder. Look at the chronology of when the Purolator contract was up for bid. Cargojet announced the 757, the Georgian acquisition took place and then the 767 announcement was made. Being that it was all happening more or less concurrently, is it possible that Cargojet expected developments outside of the Purolator contract?

Thanks nte fr8 you hit the nail on the head. I just watched for so long from sideline as these negative people who dont even take the time to inform themselves and bitch and complain about everything. they will never be happy and i would hate to see them destroy our great gig.
lets keep these guys in check!! thanks

AS far as KFC/PUROLATOR goes i did speak to AJ, and he did give me a complete version .I would love to comment on the whole situation. How about i ask AJ in an email to address this so if he want to tell us on a confrence call lets hear it from him. But all i can say is the reason i got was very convincing and made strategic anc common sense. It was a calculated move.

Hey airwings, check your private messages.

thanks nite fr8..looked after. appreciate it

hey nite fr8 chk your pvt msg.

Cargojet is a great place to be. Yes we are working a bit more than we may want to, but steps are being taken to correct that, and since when is being busy a bad thing?

I don't understand where the comments about being underpaid come from, I read the Morningstar union agreement, and I make more than the same position there does, so maybe you should address that through your union.

Unions really wouldn't do much for us. We are respected and heard by management. We are fairly paid. I find those that support unions so highly are the ones that don't do their job properly and need the support of a union to keep their job.

RRSP matching has been announced and is retroactive to Jan 1.

As a wise and blunt man once told me: the fuse is lit boys, were only going up from here....

As I said before, not a union, but something needs to happen. It has, and I'm happy. Someone stood up and let it known the thoughts of feelings of many and a change came about. It's not often, especially in this industry, that such a thing happens. It re-affirms the commitment of the company to provide a stable, profitable and enjoyable place to work.

I said I enjoy working here and am excited about the future and this solidifies my thoughts and feelings about CJ. Again, I'm not sore at working extra, everyone in every company is doing it these days and yes, it certainly is better then there being a lack of work.

This'll be an interesting year for us and I think mgmt has taken the 1st month and turned things around and let us focus on what should be a great year. I too look forward to the new birds showing up this summer.

We certainly don't need Buzz walking our hallways while pocketing his millions.

Carry on.

Well said old boy, jolly well said.

Yup i agree well said. I just wish that some how these issues are brought to the attention of senior managemant escpecially AJ earlier before they become real issues. He sure wants to listen and acts as we see here. One thing for sure is that everyplace has problems, here we are heard and respected. YA R1830, E CAN ONLY GO UP FROM HERE...

Great agree with you guys, I don't see a necessity to pay a part of my pay cheque to some union and have them negotiate on my behalf. All comparisons with the industry show CJ wages are very competitive if not better, what makes the difference here is job security and at least when problems arise we are free to speak and are heard. I am greatful that I have a job at a company where communications are not just heard but are acted upon.

Lets try and keep this forum subjective, there is no sense nor room to get personal, for example, comments such as Mr. Bollywood and VC are just rude. As far as I am concerned the CEO respects us, has a big heart and we should reciprocate the same amount of respect for where he has taken CJ today. I was just told recently, that this man wrote a $25K cheque personally to one of the guys, who experienced a family tragedy last year..so instead of Mr. Bollywood maybe we should call him Mr. Geneours or better Mr. Cargojet! Furthermore, this CEO shaves his hair off of his head to raise over $50K for children's christmas charities, so 1400 hundred children could receive gifts from Santa.....Check out the CJ lobby where the article can be found hanging on the wall.

Enjoy the great ride with CJ, its strong and solid.....I certainly am going too.