I was just thinking back to all the times I had to haul a bunch of junk to the dump or needed a truck to get stuff from the Home Depot -- I noticed it was fairly easy and available on demand.
I was just pondering -- once I get a PPL -- what is the availability of rental aircraft in your area? What if you wanted to time build, show your friends and family what it's like to be flying into an airport?
How easy is it to rent say a C-172 for a day in your part of the country?
I'm not trying to dump on you or anything but it's kinda a bad question... it's too broad. You don't say what locations you're interested in or where you want to fly. Do you want every pilot at every location across Canada to describe what rentals are available? There are better ways to get information than to ask your question here. Try driving out to your local airport, look for are any aviation companies, and ask someone who works there if there are any rentals. Check the newspaper or telephone book for local flying schools and call them. If there is a Nav Canada Flight Service Station the people working there will probably be quite happy to give you any information as to local availability. They'll know who operates on the airport but don't ask them for the hourly rates. Hope this assists you.
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Having a standard that pilots lose their licence after making a mistake despite doing no harm to aircraft or passengers means soon you needn't worry about a pilot surplus or pilots offering to fly for free. Where do you get your experience from?
We've heard about pilot shortages -- just wondering if there are any shortages in aircraft if you were intending to time build by renting one and doing a bunch of cross countries.
It would put a huge dent in a newbie PPL's practice time-building if it turns out that there is low availability of desired aircraft or some other snag (Example -- some places don't like renting to people with only a Recreational permit).
Some of us don't have the cash to actually buy a plane.
walk in, show license, show log book, proof that you have flown the club/school's aircraft before, hand over credit card, file flight plan, push throttle, pull stick back
if you go to a new school or rental place you'll more than likely have to go up with an instructor for a bit in the aircraft you want to rent even though you may be "type rated" on that already
You can end up paying for somebody else's time building for reasons that have nothing to do with you. Most places which rent are flying schools. If you rent from a flying school for the first time, or if they have recency requirements, you will have to go up with an instructor. That instructor is paid by the hour and he is building hours.
Now the valid issue is not whether you are a pilot. You already have a license. You are being checked out either because you have never flown this type before and the checkout is necessary to get you familiar with the paperwork of that type, or you may not have flown this type for a while and the school just wants to see that you remember all the key stuff. Alternatively, they may want to see you didn't just take your brothers license and show up trying to rent something.
If its a new type checkout, you will go over the manual, the systems, and the various speeds and handling characteristics. How long that type of checkout is depends on your own experiences and how you do on the checkout. The instructor has a legitimate duty in seeing that you can handle this new type of aircraft. Your checkout may be an hour, it may be five hours. Part of that depends on you, part of it depends on the ethics of the school. You may have been fine after four hours, the fifth hour is basically a rip off, although some may say it won't do any harm.
Its the same with recurrency on a type you have already flown. Many factors come into that. Some schools will just want to see you can fly that type of airplane and will have a look in your log book to see if have recent time on type. How long is necessary? If you flew a Cessna 172 at the school next door last week, and this school takes you for a 2 hour ride, you've probably been taken for a ride and needlessly paid for some instructors time. Most experienced pilots can tell whether you can fly by the time you have gotten the airplane started and taxied to the stop line before takeoff. The rest is just a formality.
Some places will draw the checkout out for extra revenue for themselves and some won't. I've been to a few that don't even require a checkout.
I can give you an example. Many years ago I was doing my multi-engine rating at a school run by a complete Jewish yahoo in Vancouver area. I was at ten hours and felt I was doing fine and ready for the ride. The instructor said, no, you'll need another four or five hours before you are ready. OK, I said. I went to the school next door, which had a multi rating examiner on staff and asked if I could go up in their Seneca for just an evaluation, no more training, to see if that instructor would recommend me for the ride. We went up for about an hour. No problem, he says. I'll recommend you.
I go for the ride and pass without problems. The examiner says it was the highest score on a multi ride so far that year, it being in August by then. The other school would have screwed me out of another five hours for no good reason.
If you just get your license, be prepared to do some fairly comprehensive checkouts. They'll do you good. But by the time you have 500 hours in 172's, and just flew one the day before yesterday, and some place says you need a two hour checkout because their insurance company requires it, take a pass on that place, then and forever.
You're being screwed. I've been in aviation over 30 years and have seen many insurance policies. I have never seen one that requires a fixed time for a checkout at a rental place. They all say at the discretion of the chief flying instructor. Most if not all insurance policies do not specify any checkout at all. Common sense may, but the insurance policy doesn't.
A question to you instructors out there. (Not trying to hijack this thred) Have about 10k hours and tried to take the kids up for a ride. All the places I went to tried to tell me I need at least 1 ½ to 2 hours to make sure I’m still able to fly a 172. Is this normal now a days? Back in the day if you had the right instructor, a check out could last one circuit. Needless to say, the kids are still waiting for their ride….
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“Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical
aquatic ceremony.” My Father
What could possibly take 2 hours to discover about an individual's flying ability that couldn't be known in the first 10 minutes? *How deep are his pockets*...weeeeiiiirrrd...I think that says more about the instructor's ability to assess skill level than the pilot's flying ability
This was at the CYKF (Kitchener Waterloo) airport. And I went to all of the rental places there to ask. They were telling me such nice stories about how I would need to do some steep turns, forced approaches and that it was an insurance requirement. If any of there nice people are watching……….you blew it.
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“Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical
aquatic ceremony.” My Father
Ref Plus 10 wrote:What could possibly take 2 hours to discover about an individual's flying ability that couldn't be known in the first 10 minutes?
Complete inability to handle a crosswind, for one.
Not to say you would come to that conclusion after 2 hours of airwork, just that it's something you might not get to see in a 10 minute, single circuit flight.
@ North of You - I can only speak for one of the rental places in YKF, but the requirement for a full COT flight is indeed insurance mandated. Whoever you spoke to where I work wasn't feeding you a line of BS.
I've rented from many places across canada without an issue. If you're new to the club/school they of course want to make sure you're not going to ball the airplane up. A circuit or two and a look at the logbook should suffice. Some places want you to write a little test on the particular aircraft with speeds and what not.
If you have 10k hrs and they want you to do stalls, steep turns, an FA or two.. then they're milking you for money and time in the instructors logbook.
I've seen 4 hours to fly a 172 at some schools, I didn't fly with them. I went up for 1 hour with an instructor for a check on a cherokee since i'd never flown one. My instructors only requirement is he felt you were safe (normally 1-3 circuits then away you go)
It barely took me 45 mins to get my conversion from CND to NZ .... If you are a licensed pilot I can't see why it would be 1.5 - 2.0 hrs to see if you would be safe enough for solo standards.
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--Air to Ground Chemical Transfer Technician turned 4 Bar Switch Flicker and Flap Operator--
What I was wondering is what if you want to take an aircraft out for an 'entire' Saturday (or over a long weekend) to fly buddies around. I'd imagine some of you might have tried this and have been told --sorry, no aircraft available!
I'd consider renting from a school or club -- but I'd imagine (like if you rent a car) that they might expect it back real soon. So if you are doing your currency requirement -- that's OK -- but what if you want one for a weekend?
I'm hoping some of you might share some experience of that and what area of Canada you're at -- maybe some pilots on vacation somewhere else in Canada might want to slip in some flight time.
I'd hate to promise someone a sight seeing tour (after all -- we just walk in , show documents and, do 1 check ride) then enjoy. Well -- it might turns out that where ever your vacationing -- it turns out that demand out paces supply (ie waiting list), or for what ever reason it's not easy getting an airplane in your area.
The places I've rented from were 4hr minimum for everyday that the airplane was away from the field.. unless you were to say.. take it in the evening and bring it back the next morning.. before peak hours.
Special arrangements and what not. Some places are more lenient.. One outfit only wanted the hourly rate but the airplane didn't see much flying regardless.
Plenty of planes available. New 172s (R or SP) are a little harder to come by at a reasonable price.
A 'new type' checkout never lasted more than 1 hr (included stalls, forced approaches, circuits, engine out and some other simulated emergencies, as well as going over the emer proc.)
A 'recurrent' checkout (the one you have to do if you have not flown the type for over 30 days) is typically 3 circuits or 0.3 total time (If you don't fly from an airport that puts you number 10 for takeoff following 7 arrivals).
They also made me do a 'night' checkout if I haven't flown the plane at night for over 30 days. Consisted of 5 circuits without the landing light = easy, 0.6
The school always says that the checkouts are 'insurance requirements'
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"Then from 1000 ft AGL until the final capture altitude, the A/C accelerates backwards up along the altitude profile with idle thrust"
When I was instructing a long time ago, the guy who taught me most of my ppl & cpl came to use our 172R. I had the utmost respect for the man and his flying ability, I followed the rules and left the zone for him to show me a stall. After his first landing he knew we had to do a few laps around the pattern. He had been flying much bigger machines and was a little messed up with the eye to wheel height of the 172. Even though you have 10000 hrs, you may need to do a few laps.
With that said schools that milk renters for 2-3 hours to rent a 172 (the simplest to fly aircraft ever made) should be avoided.
