Degree

[Morav]

How does a reputable aviation diplome hold up to a degree when applying for airline positions within Canada or even elsewhere around the world.
Is it something that could really affect your chances of getting IN.

thanks

[Adam Oke]

How much value does a diploma/degree hold period?

3000 hours vs 1500 hrs Bsc ... who would you hire as your FO?
(My question is in addition ... not meaning to be a sarcastic remark of some sort)

I just run this over and over in my mind about this whole degree BS.

"This candidate has 3000hrs regional work"
"Ahh but this candidate holds a degree in journalism ... it shows he/she has the capability to learn!"

If you're hiring a school bus driver, isn't it experience in the field, as opposed to irrelevant experience? What's the difference with an Air Bus?

[Adam Oke]

Firstly I'm sorry you took my post wrong; if that was directed at me of course. I'm not complaining, merely showing what my thought process was with regards to a degree. I try to back up questions and statements I give so people are on the same page. Do you have any incite on my question by any chance?

How much value does a diploma/degree hold period?

Or I'll ask it in a different manner... If you have experience behind you, and perseverance driving you forward, what are the chances of getting a job over someone with less time and a degree?

[TopperHarley]

Or I'll ask it in a different manner... If you have experience behind you, and perseverance driving you forward, what are the chances of getting a job over someone with less time and a degree?

Well, what about a candidate with the same experience and perserverance but they also posess a degree or diploma.

The bigger airlines usually consider everything before they invite you to an interview. Experience, education, # languages spoken, jet time, glass time, etc etc. If you're short in one area, then you will probably have to make up for it in another. Having a degree or diploma definetly counts and helps, but it doesn't guarantee you a job of course.

There's people at the airlines with no education whatsoever. But there's far more people who have a degree or diploma than those who don't. It's not impossible to make it to AC, aT, WJ, etc without one, but it will be more challenging. I've seen great people get ahead who had nothing but highschool.

Outside of Canada, the degree has more importance. In the USA, it's pretty much an absolute requirement for the major airlines.

Having education can NEVER hurt you. But it won't guarantee you an airline job either. You will still need experience to back it up. It will certainly make you more competitive and give you an edge over someone who doesn't. Learn a second or third language while you're at it too.

Just keep this in mind- if you're going to get a degree or diploma, get one in something that interests you. If it's journalism, great, go for it. If it's mechanical engineering, then do that.

[sanjet]

Anyone ever try getting a degree/bachelor via online courses while flying (on your days off...)? I'm really thinking about it.

[Pugster]

Having education can NEVER hurt you. But it won't guarantee you an airline job either. You will still need experience to back it up. It will certainly make you more competitive and give you an edge over someone who doesn't. Learn a second or third language while you're at it too.

Just keep this in mind- if you're going to get a degree or diploma, get one in something that interests you. If it's journalism, great, go for it. If it's mechanical engineering, then do that.

This is very, very solid advice. Life isn't all about getting to the airlines - especially once you've got there!

[Adam Oke]

This is very, very solid advice. Life isn't all about getting to the airlines - especially once you've got there!

No, for me, life isn't all about getting into the airlines. If I could fly single VFR forever, I would. Unfortunately, there is better money elsewhere; airlines. Though airlines do not appeal to me, the pay in the long haul does.

[Morav]

Life is about getting to the airlines, cause
THATS THE WAY SHE GOES

[Conquest Driver]

Anyone ever try getting a degree/bachelor via online courses while flying (on your days off...)? I'm really thinking about it.

There are several good schools. I'm familiar with Athabasca Universtiy in Alberta. It takes a lot of self discipline, but their set up for it.

[wingless]

Anyone ever try getting a degree/bachelor via online courses while flying (on your days off...)? I'm really thinking about it.

I'm usually a lurker but decided to reply to this one.

There are more affordable universities in the US that are accedited by the US Depatment of Education.
California Coast University and Ashworth University offer really good payment plans. California Coast has an equal payment plan which is only $100 per month but you have to buy or rent books yourself. Ashworth has something similar that also includes books. Both offer Bachelor and Master degrees.

I did the Calcoast degree and found it pretty good. There are 4 multiple choice tests, 3 short 400 word essays and a multiple choice final exam per course. Everything is open book although you need to nominate a proctor to supervise the exam.

http://www.calcoast.edu

http://www.ashworthuniversity.com

[wallypilot]

Life is about getting to the airlines, cause
THATS THE WAY SHE GOES

sheep.

life is not about getting to the airlines for everyone.

however, to address the initial question: all else being equal, a degree would be beneficial. A degree shows the ability to learn, the ability to adapt, and the ability to commit to a goal. Combine that with your aviation training, and the few years it took you to get to the interview you're at, and you probably (no guarantee, though) have a reasonably qualified individual.

[Czar]

I did the Calcoast degree and found it pretty good. There are 4 multiple choice tests, 3 short 400 word essays and a multiple choice final exam per course. Everything is open book although you need to nominate a proctor to supervise the exam.

Multiple choice?! 400 word essays?! open book?!

If that's the evaluation process to obtain a degree at an online university then I would be concerned about the credibility & quality of such institutions.

[wingless]

Obtaining a degree online is very demanding. Balancing a busy work schedule (and family life for some) with completing assignments can be difficult. Obtaining a degree is not just about mastering the material...it's about starting something you finished. It shows you can be trained and you're motivated. Whether this is done online or in class, whats the difference? Obviously the ideal situation is to complete a traditional degree prior to entering the work force during your younger years. Not everyone has the finances to do that especially after forking out upwards of 40k on flight training.

There are a lot of degree/diploma mills out there that cast a shadow over reputible online institutions. In the USA, ensure the college/university is recognized by the US department of education either through a regional or national accrediting body. The 2 schools previously mentioned are recognized.

Online institutions are getting more popular. Is the course work a little easier than the traditional route? Possibly if you had time to sit at home for 3 years and just do that. But it's designed for working adults with busy schedules. A lot of the assignments and tests are submitted online not in a supervised setting but thats why its an online course. If it's not for you then thats fine but don't knock people that chose that route as they work extremely hard for that piece of paper. I've had no issues getting the online degree recognized by employers.

If you're looking for a degree in medicine, law, engineering or other specialized degree then a brick and mortar institution is probably for you as you need that specialization. IF you're looking for a genic degree in basket weaving or business administration for the sake of a piece of paper, who cares how or where you got it as long as it's accredited.Why pay through the nose for it when there's an affordable option out there?

[THEICEMAN]

Look guys.....mixing a degree with flying isn't as hard as you think!
If your going to take 5 courses & flight train or fly for a living, then it's hard. But if you space it out, it's possible. I am taking 2-3 courses a semester & that's it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but degrees are more important when you get to the airline stage.
So why do it in three years, when you can do it in 6 years & fly?
If your in your early to mid 20s & a low timer, you can fly for a 703 or instruct, while doing school part time. Degrees are not really needed at the 703/704 or regional stage.

There is no need to rush a degree! If you can finish it in the long run, then you will have the hours & the degree.

For ex:

Mr. X is 20 & is trying to become a career pilot while studying in university. In his first semester, he finds it difficult to mix both. Next semester, he decides to keep full time status but only does two courses a semester.

He knows that if he finishes by 25-26, he will have a degree & some time in his log book. Mr.X knows that there is no rush to complete his degree since a low timer with a degree is still a low timer. 703 operators or flying schools don't look at that.
Mr.X is preparing for the long term.


Catch what I am trying to say?

[lilfssister]

deleted

[jim_from_texas]

Even though I don't have a degree I would encourage anyone wanting a career in aviation to get one so it's there at least as a back up. Now having said that, I have always had a problem with people saying that having a degree shows your commitment and ability to learn. Ok fine, it is also obvious that AC highly prefers degree holders. So how about a person,29 years old, 244h full motion sim, regional turboprop type rating, medium range jet type rating, 6 month heavy jet type rating training with 3 months of worldwide line training with instructors who speak broken english and even worse atc (India, Vietnam...). Don't I have the ''ability to learn''?

[wallypilot]

Even though I don't have a degree I would encourage anyone wanting a career in aviation to get one so it's there at least as a back up. Now having said that, I have always had a problem with people saying that having a degree shows your commitment and ability to learn. Ok fine, it is also obvious that AC highly prefers degree holders. So how about a person,29 years old, 244h full motion sim, regional turboprop type rating, medium range jet type rating, 6 month heavy jet type rating training with 3 months of worldwide line training with instructors who speak broken english and even worse atc (India, Vietnam...). Don't I have the ''ability to learn''?

Umm, not necessarily. From my experience, many many many many many individuals slip through the cracks. I have flown with 5000 hour turbo prop captains that shouldn't be where they are....even after years in a turbine IFR environment. A simple certificate showing a bachelor degree demonstrates that, at least, the person has shown an ability to learn in a completely different enviroment from aviation. Not to say other things don't show this ability, but the degree completion, combined with aviation training shows it much better.

[Tim Tam]

What good is a degree that you haven't used in 4-6 years or have no real-world experience in? Best of luck getting a job in "Commerce" after a few years out of the field. Industries outside of aviation do not understand the cyclical nature of our profession.

I get tired of people judging others about education. Some people are more fortunate than others and have the money given to them. Others may look at the oppourtunity cost involved with a degree, and would rather utilize that money (and time) towards their flying career.

I chose the latter, and found myself at the airlines. Funny thing, not a single soul here is yet to ask me about my "formal" edumakation.........

Not edited, 'cause I wouldn't know the difference.

[Four1oh]

if you want a backup, get a trade.

[ea306]

Education with the view to being skilled at doing something is valuable and will enable you to make a living. Education for the sake of education may be intellectually enlightening however may not provide a living in itself.

Given the volatility of the industry... furloughs, bankruptcies etc.... I would say it is a good investment in your future to be educated to perform a skill that is in demand. Be it a degree or a trade.

Then again what do I know...?

15 years ago I could not spell: "Jet Pilot"... Now I ARE ONE !!

[Tim Tam]

Go and get a bartending certificate.

'Coupla hundred bucks. Work whenever you need to (banquets, weddings), drink on the job, and collect almost tax-free tips.

Maybe meet some girlies, realize there is more to life than flying, move to the Caribbean, get divorced...

*Poof*

Wow, crrrrazzy dream...........

[ScudRunner]

Some of the dumbest chicks Ive picked up at the bar had all sorts of degree's, A piece of paper has nothing to do with intelligence. A masters degree holder made the profound statement that Canada shouldn't be fighting the Taliban in Iraq. So I played with it and asked if she thought the Kurds would make a better ally than the Northern alliance's struggle against the Chechnyans in Kosovo. She said that the UN should intervine to help the people. Oh and she teaches your 13 year old.

however, to address the initial question: all else being equal, a degree would be beneficial. A degree shows the ability to learn, the ability to adapt, and the ability to commit to a goal. Combine that with your aviation training, and the few years it took you to get to the interview you're at, and you probably (no guarantee, though) have a reasonably qualified individual.

Yes I would agree that obtaining a degree shows ability to study new subjects and commit to a goal and finish it, but the Ability to adapt? only in the sense to jump through the desired hoops of the education system. It goes in all directions, You can be book smart but not practical smart some awesome pilots never set foot in a University ever, some shitty pilots have degree's and qualifications out the hoop others are great pilots but douche bags it really comes down to the individual.

I started University but found it boring and never really learned a thing or was inspired at all. I really liked smashing that pot and putting it back togather in Archaeology 101. Other than that I knew I wanted to be a pilot so I said @#$! it and focussed on Aviation. Not having a degree hasnt held me back for a second in this game, way back while I was doing my licences I was working ramp with about 30 guy wich 25 had the university degree some dumb lazy punks others good workers and natural leaders, out of the 25 with degree's only 6 are still flying today two at AC. Out of the 5 others that didnt have degree's all are still flying 1 at AC, 1 Cathay, 1 Citation X F/O, 1 Otter pilot, all are the biggest characters your ever going to meet. as for me Im a shitty pilot and a douche bag who will win you more drinks at useless trivia night at the bar.

Check a guys passport I think thats a better gauge on intelligence