FSS Training to follow the IFR model?

[lilfssister]

Heard third or fourth hand that this summer FSS training will be going regional, no more (place formerly known as) NCTI courses after June? July? Somewhere in there.

[kevenv]

Someone at work today mentioned an announcement was made saying all FSS and VFR training was being removed from NCTI and moving to the regional schools. The rattling you hear is me shaking my head.

[lilfssister]

Yes, my bad...it was tower AND FSS training.

Re: rattle: I thought it was something in the front end of my car. Was going to make an appointment at the dealer tomorrow. Thanks for saving me the $$$$$$

[pokaroo]

how about all FSS and VFR taining to be contracted out so the company doesn't have to pay Controller salaries to the instructors....

They are already doing it with the training for the overseas guys. There are a handful of old catca paying instructors who are now drawing a pension and working for some numbered company owned by Navcanada providing training to overseas people out of Cornwall.

[lilfssister]

IIRC that was the case for domestic ATC courses when I was in Cornwall, there were a few retired ATC teaching those at the time. Nice job if you can get it, AI pension and AI whatever level pay??

Back to the regional training though, I would assume that means as it does for IFR, pay your own room and board while in training. I can see that making a difference for those in the pool, who chose either Tower or VFR based on the free room and board while pre-OJT.

[atwork]

I saw the official online notice today confirming this, so do you think this means they've cancelled the direct entry FSS program?

[lilfssister]

Well, it seems to have Sim time, which beats the no Sim time, direct entry thing by a mile. I hope the direct entry thing dies a quick death.

[NJ]

The water cooler talk at work today was that VFR training would be done regionally. So what happens in the 7 ACC's without tower simulators? Do they plan on building 7 multi-million dollar simulators to save on a bit of room and board at a facility they own outright?

God forbid that FSS and controller training get in the way of the exceptional training programs and conference facilities that the place formerly known as NCTI provides.

[sigmet77]

Online notice stated 11 new simulators, ACC's each get one, plus 4 top towers and one for training setup etc. 18-24 months to implement.

[husky]

What does this mean for the near-term training plans for FSS and VFR? ie.next 6-12 months??? (from someone on the waiting lists this news is a bit shocking)

[pokaroo]

IIRC that was the case for domestic ATC courses when I was in Cornwall, there were a few retired ATC teaching those at the time. Nice job if you can get it, AI pension and AI whatever level pay??

I think you're missing the point, yes that's the way it used to be done. Retire....come back as a term employee covered under the collective agreement and work for Navcanada.

What they are doing now is hiring back old instructors outside the realm of Navcanada. The company has spun off some numbered company and this new company is the one providing training to overseas controllers. The new instructors are not covered by any collective agreement, and are being paid less then what a CATCA member providing the same job would be paid.

It's my opinion that this is the plan for the entire training process IFR VFR FSS.

[grimey]

Heard third or fourth hand that this summer FSS training will be going regional, no more (place formerly known as) NCTI courses after June? July? Somewhere in there.

It's still a better plan (for FSS) than the direct entry stuff they proposed. I can't understand scrapping NCTI, though.

[lilfssister]

What they are doing now is hiring back old instructors outside the realm of Navcanada. The company has spun off some numbered company and this new company is the one providing training to overseas controllers. The new instructors are not covered by any collective agreement, and are being paid less then what a CATCA member providing the same job would be paid.

Okay, thanks for the explanation. I didn't realise they were doing that.

[lilfssister]

What does this mean for the near-term training plans for FSS and VFR? ie.next 6-12 months??? (from someone on the waiting lists this news is a bit shocking)

Not really sure husky. It's all new to all of us, as well as the people awaiting training. What little information that has been posted is pretty much everything we have been told.

[sigmet77]

I believe you will see a slow down on hires, especially with 55 FSS graduating in '07.

[thatdaveguy]

I believe you will see a slow down on hires, especially with 55 FSS graduating in '07.

This has been confirmed in the online bulletin. FSS in particular will have a massive hiring slowdown.

The dates:

July 2008 all FSS training is expected to be done regionally
VFR - December 2008
Advanced Airports - May 2009

Big, big changes here. Given it's safe to say there will be no more NCTI for refreshers either, they are well on their way to selling the building.

The new simulators are a big shame. It's just a bunch of computer monitors placed side by side in a small room, not even projector screens...

[matth]

When do they plan to inform people in the candidate pool of these changes? I am assuming I'll get a call for the July or August course, as it's a bit too late for the one in April.. not pleased with this information though, I had assumed room and board would be provided and planned accordingly.

I'm located near Halifax - does anyone know if I can expect training to be provided somewhere near (CYQM I assume), or will they make the choice based on other factors.

[lilfssister]

From the sounds of things, people will be training in the ACC (where the simulators are to be located) closest to them when there are positions available within the FIR served by each ACC. So for you, a position would have to become available in NB, PE, NS or NL.

That's my take on it anyway. Maybe some of the other FSS on here have heard something different.

[matth]

From the sounds of things, people will be training in the ACC (where the simulators are to be located) closest to them when there are positions available within the FIR served by each ACC. So for you, a position would have to become available in NB, PE, NS or NL.

The only positive thing from that is I'm able to stay relatively close to my family and friends both during and after training .. looks like there is a silver lining after all. I'll be interested to hear more about this!

[lilfssister]

I could be wrong about NL being lumped in with the Maritimes too

[bigfssguy]

The only positive thing from that is I'm able to stay relatively close to my family and friends both during and after training.

During training yes, you will be close to home. After though all bets are off then. Expect to move and in all likelyhood it will be west. We have a priority of staffing in our contract and ab initios are pretty much at the bottom of the list. It's a matter of numbers there are only a few stations in the maritimes and they are seniority bid and the few that aren't have a line up around the corner to get into.

So you may train in the east but in all likelyhood you'll end up in the west where the bulk of the stations are. the only ones likely to train and stay in there regions will be there quebecers and that is becasue they are french. though there is some hope for you to stay in the east and that is if they give you the AWBS course and put you into the Fic in halifax. Small hope but possible.

[flightsimmer747]

Hey guys, is this the actual course you speak of?
Basically VFR training would be done in a regional tower or rather setup regionally with a classroom, without NCTI, for certain, sometime later this year? That means we would notice no future students setup to start training @ ncti as of DECEMBER 2008 for VFR?

Thanks!

[pokaroo]

Under the old system trainees were paid while attending training and were generally happy, it used to take a good 5 or 10 years before people turned bitter...........

now..........Navcanada is going to to have an entire generation of young bitter employees right from day one and eventually the numbers will start to grow and these people will start filling local Union positions then eventually national positions and we will all remember how poorly the company has treated us since day 1.

How many times have you heard on here, "love my job, love my co-workers, hate the company i work for"

[flightsimmer747]

Under the old system trainees were paid while attending training and were generally happy, it used to take a good 5 or 10 years before people turned bitter...........

now..........Navcanada is going to to have an entire generation of young bitter employees right from day one and eventually the numbers will start to grow and these people will start filling local Union positions then eventually national positions and we will all remember how poorly the company has treated us since day 1.

How many times have you heard on here, "love my job, love my co-workers, hate the company i work for"

Some jobs are bitter and suck, we do it for the money. Just thinking positive here! I'm sure we can all rant about our current job even if its not atc. At least with atc you can say I love my job and don't mind going to work where i CAN earn good money, you still need to be in the big leagues to earn well...

[invertedattitude]

Under the old system trainees were paid while attending training and were generally happy, it used to take a good 5 or 10 years before people turned bitter...........

now..........Navcanada is going to to have an entire generation of young bitter employees right from day one and eventually the numbers will start to grow and these people will start filling local Union positions then eventually national positions and we will all remember how poorly the company has treated us since day 1.

How many times have you heard on here, "love my job, love my co-workers, hate the company i work for"

I was wondering how the rest of the country was.

I love going to work everyday, have a blast with the people I work with, and I'll be honest the "Company" aspect of things here hasn't bitten me too bad yet, on a National level I feel like I was robbed before I even qualified long story there...