Is 42 too old to get in?

[wreckage]

I'm 42, healthy, with over 5200 hours PIC bush-time. I'm going for the multi-IFR this fall because I'm sick of seasonal work. Does anyone know what age the major carriers cut off the interviews and hires at?

[North Shore]

I'm sure that, in the current hiring binge, as long as you have the requisite hours, you'll be looked at. The question is, can you afford the starting salary at an airline, or the paycut to go to a smaller commuter that will open the doors at 'The Big Airline'? Whatever happens, good luck!

[CCR]

Do you have multi-ifr experience aleady or will this be your first time? The reason I ask is that IFR skills need to be second nature by the time you reach AC, WJ, or Jazz. Sounds like you have the "time" but if you are just starting out in IFR you may need to spend some time at an IFR charter outfit or CMA level player. Can't see us hiring you without that experience. In fact, as a Captain, I don't think I'd want to be paired with someone who has no real-world IFR.

[pika]

In fact, as a Captain, I don't think I'd want to be paired with someone who has no real-world IFR.

Like it or not it is your job as Captain to get FO's real world IFR experience. Not so long ago I stepped out of the flightdeck for a brief break and returned to find we were on a "direct to" spanning four countries, almost 1200nm and six FIR's. Should have been about a 150nm direct... On the way home the maps disapeared and the FMC's went blank. Chalk that one up to finger trouble...

Do your IFR ina B767 sim and pm me when you are done. A B767 job is waiting,

[CCR]

You're right, part of my job as a Captain is teaching. Don't agree though that as an airline Captain at WJ, I should be teaching basic IFR skills to those who are just learning them. Those skills are required prior to coming here. I did that at CMA days to 300 hour F/O's. Here at WJ, I'm guiding new F/O's on RNP, PMA's to CAT II and III, HF and WATRS, operations in High Density (ie LAX) etc. Teaching a guy what an RNAV STAR is should not be a part of my repertoire. It's a moot point because the company has already stated that they are looking for guys with 705 experience....someone coming out of the bush with 5000 plus hours but no IFR won't cut it.

[NghtFrt]

Age wont be a problem with the current state of the industry. You would be a good candidate for Morningstar Air Express. Entery level positions are on the Caravan with bases in CYQM, CYMX, CYWG, CYVR or Second Officer on the 727 out of Toronto. Both positions will transition to a First Officer position on the 727-200. Staring pay is quite good and excellent benefit/per dieum package. They operate the domestic FedEx contract. http://www.maei.ca Good luck.

[Bushpilot1951]

I'm 56, 3,000 hr on floats all over Canada. I will have a brand new Multi-IFR in 2 days and hopefully my ATPL written within 2 months. I flogged a bunch of resumes and contrary to ccr ,companies are desperate for experienced PILOTS! If you can accept some remote locations (find a good rotation) companies will hire you in a heart beat.The IFR world is certainly different but I have to believe a company (and it's insurer) would rather hire an experienced mature pilot with fewer IFR hours over a young top gun.

[CCR]

I don't think it's contrary to what I'm saying at all. I said two things. One, Westjet more than likely will not hire someone who doesn't have IFR experience already. I agree with that hiring practice. We operate in a challenging environment involving layers of complexity all of which involve IFR knowledge and experience. I am not on the hiring board, but the policy of giving top preference to those who have 705 or CMA/Georgian experience bears that out. If you want in at WJA, get some IFR experience at another company and then apply. Secondly, I said I don't want to fly with someone who is just learning IFR. A First Officers role is to assist the Captain as much as it's the Captain's job to guide/instruct the F/O in his/her progress towards being an airline Captain. I can handle the role given to me, but I still expect the Company to provide me with a co-worker who is at least comfortable with flying the aircraft in a world that involves procedures and radio calls that exist in an IFR/High density world.


There is a reason that WJ has moved towards the hiring policy it has. Too many candidates without the 705/IFR experience have proven over and over again that they need extra training and that they are weak online. I've experienced it already in my short time in the left seat. There have been times when I have felt like a single pilot operation. That sucks when it's a 737 going into a WATRS route and ending up at a Carribean destination in the middle of the night versus a King Air 200 going into Fort Ware in the middle of the day!!

[Bushpilot1951]

Hey CCR, I agree 100% As a former chief pilot for a 703, I understand what you are saying about ineperienced pilots. I wouldn't dare think for a moment that a 705 would look at me right now, nor would I apply.

Based on your experience do u think someone with my age and time plus say, 500 hr single pilot IFR on a caravan in remote operations would be considered by WJ or should I just set my heights as Cpt on a King Air or PC-12.

[CCR]

I don't know the answer to that question Bushpilot. The best guy to ask is Dave Pobran. He is the pilot hiring co-ordinator and would have the best take on what we are looking for. He's a great guy to talk to and has in the past made himself available to give tours of the facility. Call the hangar on a Wednesday and you might reach him.

Would 500 hours of IFR cut it? Not sure. Are those 500 hours between Edmonton and Peace River or are they 500 hours in and out of Toronto, NYC or LAX on an aircraft with a glass cockpit? The biggest challenge everyone faces when they get on the NG is knowing how and when to manage the automation (FMC, MCP panel etc). Hands on flying doesn't always apply here and you have to be comfortable with all of the basics of flying into complex environments while you figure out the flow of this specific aircraft. It's a challenge for everyone but do you really want to put yourself at a disadvantage by coming here not fully prepared? If you're coming from a longer way experience wise, prepare yourself by reading jet books; learn what you can about concepts such as CAT II/III Pilot Monitored Approaches (PMA's), RNP's (Westjet NG specific approach), Noise Abatement procedures, Balanced Field Length, high altitude performance etc. Get comfortable with computers as well...actually, become very comfortable. It seems to be the biggest problem for those who have high time yet very little Glass experience...

[SQ]

what you're saying both is interesting.

bushpilot, it is worth a try and you can find some operators doing both IFR in bush environment. 3000 hrs bush is an advantage.
begining in aviation without having 20 anymore and just 250 ish hrs is a bit more touchy and you have to struggle against people's misconception that 250 = wanker.
but you can go over that I think.

CCR,
what is :
WATRS ?
concepts such as CAT II/III, what do you mean by concept ?
PMA's ?
RNP's ?

[Tiny Voices]

Good morning SQ. Go to Google video and do a search for WestJet RNP. Nice little presentation and general overview what RNP approaches are about. We are now doing RNP departures as well, which is especially nice in places like YLW that have an otherwise very complex procedure/engine out procedure.

[SQ]

do you have links because search didn't give anything
thanks

[W5]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2371819535

[W5]

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/caft/r ... ts/RNP.pdf

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n13454174

[SQ]

i don't know why it didn't work but thinks a lot

[Tiny Voices]

Sorry SQ. Shoulda linked you up but, I didn't want to be responsible for eight minutes of your life you couldn't get back, lol!

[SQ]

no problem, I still sit on my chair.
RNP seems to be a great tool, may be a bit prob for ATC but I won't go further as I don't fly big iron neither medium...
it doesn't seem rocket science to use as 200 hrs cadet fly that in other places in the world and it is written =

One item that hasn't been discussed is the vertical descent profile of the RNP approach. RNP capable aircraft, with BaroVNAV capability (FMS directed Vertical Navigation capability based on comparing FMS position and altitude constraints with barometric altimeter data) allow each of these procedures to be flown using vertical and lateral flight director guidance. In other words, each of these procedures is just like flying an ILS with glideslope and course guidance displayed on the flight director.

to be familiar with these very new tools in aviation it could be nice to begin flying with DA42 and SR22.
i would add that it is employer task to train its new pilots to the said airline standars, hmmm, SOPs ?
but once again, it might be something special because they will only hire pilots from 705 having flown good old b1900 or ATR42 without glass cockpit.

[wreckage]

Thanks for the feedback I'm starting my sim training on Tuesday, and writing the IATRA this Friday. Truthfully, the panel on my trainer looks antique compared to what I've been flying, but I will now start learning the "R" part of the "IFR".