Canadians working in the EU?

[Wacko]

I know there are other posts about this but I want current information. I don't need to be pointed to websites, I'm able to navigate the Internets just fine.

First off, anyone had their ATPL converted recently? You needed to write that country's Air Law exam? Any other things you needed to accomplish? I'm not concerned with the technicalities of working abroad/visas.

Second, anyone here converted their CPL to JAA CPL? 14 tests, JAA CPL flight test and that's it?

Thanks in advance,

Wacko

[whoop whoop pull up]

You need to write the 14 exams if you are converting your license to a JAA ATPL and not CPL.
Here is some info : http://www.bestaviation.net/art_jaa_conversion.asp

Cheers

[Mustang06]

only 14?

[shamrock104]

9 for the CPL and 14 for the Frozen ATPL.

[whoop whoop pull up]

only 14?

haha, I edited the post for you

[SQ]

conversion is a long and costly process If you don't have 3000 hrs or something like that on +300.000lbs A/c
the moncton flying college does this conversion that i strongly recommand to do here in canada to save money because it can cost you around 60000$ in europe or UK
you'll have to log some hours again for your CPL IR Twinn
preparing all the 14 exams take around 9 months to 1 year if yiour a hard worker
after that you'll have to go in the counttry to writte exams (england sweden wherever in accordance with the country you want your license to be validated)
after that you'll have to pay for your MCL if you don't have multi crew experience and your done ready to apply
i know someone doing this in england it has cost him 60.000$



but you can find a right seat on jet right away, UK is extremely poor in pilots now
for instance requirements for F/O on ATR42 is 300hrs
same for B737
having your rating ;will help a lot it is quiet comon overthere that people pay this type rating to get hired, a bit the contrary as here in canada.
check :
easyjet
ryanair
aer aran
flybe
LX
and all irish and other UK companies
good luck

[Wacko]

Getting a JAA CPL is kind of useless if you're going to go through the whole conversion... but thanks for everyone who replied. I thought I read somewhere that you can do the tests online? Or at least study online and then write it at a designated testing center? Are there any places in the west that do this conversion?

Thanks

[SQ]

Getting a JAA CPL is kind of useless if you're going to go through the whole conversion... but thanks for everyone who replied. I thought I read somewhere that you can do the tests online? Or at least study online and then write it at a designated testing center? Are there any places in the west that do this conversion?

you have no choice but go through the whole process
it is not like converting to FAA
it is useless if you want to convert for the fun, not if you want to go to europe
distance JAR/ JAA ATPL is at least 4000$ + exams fee $$

[V1]

It's to bad they don't do an ATPL trade off like we do with America. It would save everyone a lot of hassle, i would think.
Is there anywhere to work in the EU (i have a passport) where you don't need the JAA"s?

[shamrock104]

You can do the ATPL writtens through Naples Air Centre in Florida and can sit the exams there.

[E-Flyer]

You need to write the 14 exams if you are converting your license to a JAA ATPL and not CPL.
Here is some info : http://www.bestaviation.net/art_jaa_conversion.asp

Cheers

I shouldn't really be stepping out to post outside the flight training forums - but i just got a general question. Would it be a much better method to actually redo all of ur flight training from scratch with JAA than converting? Would you have 14 exams if doing it from scratch?


Cheers !

[Wacko]

You pretty much are. The only thing that really "transfers" is your hours flown...

[SQ]

You need to write the 14 exams if you are converting your license to a JAA ATPL and not CPL.
Here is some info : http://www.bestaviation.net/art_jaa_conversion.asp

Cheers

I shouldn't really be stepping out to post outside the flight training forums - but i just got a general question. Would it be a much better method to actually redo all of ur flight training from scratch with JAA than converting? Would you have 14 exams if doing it from scratch?


Cheers !

14 is just the ATPL.
you don't convert your ATPL but CPL M IR
then pass your ATPL
14 is for everybody, european and non european.

[shower of sparks]

any canadian's have licence validations in e.u. countries?

sos

[LegoMan]

dont quote me on this, but I did look into this last year, and there are several countries in the EU that will hire without a JAA but only for general aviation. So if you dont mind flying business jets or king airs over there than that may be a way for you to get over there. However the UK was not one of these countries.

[Wacko]

Want to help narrow the scope down? Which countries? Netherlands? Whatever you can remember.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I asked Oxford Aviation in the UK for a quotation regarding the convertion of my Canadian ATPL and here's what they answered (will give you an idea of the costs and time frame). Note that I enquired about distance learning only.

Thank you for your enquiry today in regards to converting an ICAO Licence to a JAA ATPL. You noted in your email that you do not meet the 3000 hours for a quick conversion, do you meet the hours as stated below;

Once you hold a minimum of 1,500 hrs flying experience as PIC or Co-pilot on multi-pilot aeroplanes and hold a valid multi-pilot type rating for the aeroplane to be used for the ATPL (A) skill test including at least 500 hrs experience as pilot on that type, you will need to complete the following training to convert your current ICAO ATPL to an JAA ATPL:

Q Obtain JAA Class 1 Medical

Q Pass 14 JAA ATPL Ground examinations - no minimum hours of study

Q Pass UK Radio Telephony Test

Q Pass Skills Check on Rated Aircraft (Approved UK CAA examiner and approved aircraft/simulator required)

We would strongly recommend you contact the UK CAA to confirm these training requirements. The information above has been taken from Lasors 2008 – Section G, G1.5, Page 4 and 5 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS2008 ... arked).pdf). Contact details for the UK CAA are – http://www.caa.co.uk or 00 44 1293 573700.

Distance Learning Package - £2,100.00 plus £882 - CAA Test Fees

Q Self study of 14 subjects – all ATPL text books written by OAA Instructors

Q Minimum of 15 full time Ground Instructors

Q Examination Preparation CD Rom, containing approximately 2,300 questions

Q Access onto our virtual college and on-line tutorial support

Q Total of 4 weeks classroom based instruction (2 weeks each Phase) at Oxford

Q 85% average first time pass rate

Q Continual monitoring of study through progress test papers

This package allows you to pay for your training in stages. The initial payment is £1,100 and covers the text books, question/answer CD, study guide and access to OAT Virtual College. Then each 2 week classroom instruction costs £500, which is payable, as and when you are ready to book the classroom time. This makes the total cost for Distance Learning training £2,100.00.

If you are able to complete 15 hrs of study per week, the Distance Learning course will take approximately 10-12 months to complete. There is also a time limit of 18 months to complete the course.

The CAA examination fees, £63.00 per exam (totaling £882), are made payable directly to the CAA at the time of booking. The examinations can be sat at Oxford, Gatwick, Silsoe or Glasgow and are normally on the first Monday through to Thursday of each new month.

Please note, to be eligible to join a Ground School Distance Learning course you will need to provide a copy of your valid ICAO CPL Licence and JAA Class 1 Medical Certificate.

[Wacko]

That's a great post. They forgot to mention you need to fly out to England for the ground I think. It's a crazy undertaking for sure. And just think, once you pay to get all of that done you get to pay some more for at type rating!

I talked to a couple guys and they said that the British radio test is pretty hard too.

[xsbank]

Before you do any of the studying, go to Zurich or Gatwick and do the medical - takes a couple of days, they do everything to you except exploratory surgery and you pay about £500 for the privilege. You must do the INITIAL medical in Europe, but can renew in Canada.

[E-Flyer]

conversion is a long and costly process If you don't have 3000 hrs or something like that on +300.000lbs A/c
the moncton flying college does this conversion that i strongly recommand to do here in canada to save money because it can cost you around 60000$ in europe or UK
you'll have to log some hours again for your CPL IR Twinn
preparing all the 14 exams take around 9 months to 1 year if yiour a hard worker
after that you'll have to go in the counttry to writte exams (england sweden wherever in accordance with the country you want your license to be validated)
after that you'll have to pay for your MCL if you don't have multi crew experience and your done ready to apply
i know someone doing this in england it has cost him 60.000$



but you can find a right seat on jet right away, UK is extremely poor in pilots now

for instance requirements for F/O on ATR42 is 300hrs
same for B737
having your rating ;will help a lot it is quiet comon overthere that people pay this type rating to get hired, a bit the contrary as here in canada.
check :
easyjet
ryanair
aer aran
flybe
LX
and all irish and other UK companies
good luck

But then again do you want to be a 20 year old lad with 250 hrs under your belt and fly 100's of passengers? It's not always going to be a perfect IFR day. You're going to run into problems and well, experience will over take a 20 year old first officer any day.

Anybody have a list of what these 9 exams, and 14 exams consists of ? Maybe what they have is like separate tests for Airlaw, Met, Nav, Gen ? cause in that case, to be an Airline Transport Pilot in canada, you would technically need to write 14 Exams as well. Think of it this way, when you partial a test, you will only be writing THE part you failed, which makes it a separate exam; thus, breaking up the test is what they do in Europe which in all reality adds up to 14.

SPP
PSTAR
Radio Op's Written

PPL
Airlaw
Nav
Met
Gen

CPL
Airlaw
Nav
Met
Gen

IFR
INRAT

Airline Op's
IATRA
SARON
SAMRA

If anybody has the break down I'd be more than glad to know - cause I hold an EU pass and might consider going back to Sweden for employment.

[SQ]

breakdown and piltoshop here to get ready for the exams !
it's difficult to compare with the canadian ATPL as exams for each subject is not a serie of 25 Question each.
If they say 12 to 18 months @ 15hrs /week of homework, it is surely more complicated than any TC exam, I would think...

Air Law OAT
Electrics & Electronics OAT
Powerplants OAT
Instrumentation OAT
Mass & Balance OAT
Flight Planning & Monitoring OAT
Human Performance & Limitations OAT
Meteorology OAT
General Navigation OAT
Operational Procedures OAT
Principles Of Flight OAT
Communications OAT


dist. learning= http://www.oxfordaviation.net/courses.htm
buy = http://www.pilotshop.nl/index1.html

[SQ]

SARON
SAMRA

I'm sorry to correct you but candian ATPL is just those 2 exams.
the equivalent JAR ATPL are the 14 exams mentioned above
slight diff.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

A Canadian ATPL is just an advanced PPL.

[E-Flyer]

Well said.

SQ - my bad lol.

[Chuck D]

Regarding validations:

A national authority within the JAA, (ie the CAA in the UK) will validate a non-JAA ICAO licence in exceptional circumstances.

For example, a Canadian pilot with an A320 rating and over 1500 hours on type may get a "validation" based on their Canadian credentials. The validation is restricted to the country who issued the validation and is company specific. The validations are only good for a year and maybe extended in exceptional circumstances, but the authorities would want you to get a JAA licence.