How much money will I make instructing?

[mark_]

Ok everyone...please be honest and don't sugarcoat it for me...40 year old wannabe getting sick of my desk job. I know I won't make a fortune but can someone let me know how much I would make instructing at a busy school like Calgary flying club instructing? I guess I need to know if it will be enough for me actually live on.

And what are the chances of landing the job in the first place right after CPL,MIFR, and instructors.

Thank you.

[small penguin]

The local flying club here has almost always hired instructors whom were once students there.

As for the pay, the club charges it's users about 45 dollars per hour for an instructor. The instructor him/her self gets less than half. And thats only flying/instructing hours. They dont get a penny if they're between flights, or "working" (read: volunteering) around the airport.

But... not all clubs are like this. One instructor told me he was making 9 an hour and if he was flying/instructing, he was getting an additional 20 an hour. Again though, airport maintenance (think grass cutting, cleaning a/c, fueling, whatever) was "volunteering" for him.

A lot of schools will also have different rates depending on your instructing class, and possibly, your qualifications. But its double edged. When I did my PPL, most students didnt want to fly with the cat1 because the cat4 was 15 dollars cheaper per hour.

*shrugs*

[Hedley]

Keep your day job. Use it to pay for your
commercial, class 4 instructor, and while
you've got the cash for it, your multi-ifr.

Start instructing part-time, every evening
and weekend. Build TT. Build PIC. Build
night time. Snivel multi time.

But don't give up the day job until you've
got at least 1000TT. And don't burn any
bridges when you leave there, either - odds
are you'll probably want to come back at
some point.

[mark_]

Thanks for the advice guys.
The only problem with keeping my day job is that it would take me forever to get going! But it does make the most sense financially I guess.

Based on those figures...could an instructor make more than 40k anually?

Mark

[Hoov]

Not likely If you were to do it full time I would think the most one can make instructing is 25G, I could be wrong.

[Rudder Bug]

Hi Mark,

I've done that job for many years and I think Hoov's numbers above are quite close to reality. As per Hedley's suggestion, I wouldn't quit a good job for it before I have good PIC time, making me more employable.

[mark_]

Thanks guys...hats off to the guys and gals teaching for 25k, I would like to stop by and donate some KD and beer.

[Rudder Bug]

Mark,

Some guys do it part time on weekends or after work, for fun and extra money. Instructing is rewarding for those who love it and it's a good time builder, not mentioning a fantastic way to sharpen one's hands and feet.

[Stevo226]

try 17k/year. I take donations

[E-Flyer]

try 17k/year. I take donations

Don't quote me on this, but aren't there companies up north who offer more like $30-35/hr ? or am I hearing wrong. I guess proportionally speaking though you would be grounded more often? but you sure would get good at de-icing the planes and cold wx operations. Not that it's something significant, but it's also not the easiest thing to land on runways with ice patches

If you're a family man though then maybe they don't want to come up north either. But yea, maybe that'd be worth some more research, or if I am wrong, somebody correct me.

[Dockjock]

The problem with the profession of instructing is that your class IV rating is basically a coupon for a job that's only good at one store.

An instructor candidate is a potential customer, and flight schools will generally say whatever it takes to get a customer. The first question a potential instructor candidate asks is obviously, "what are my chances of getting a job here once I'm done the rating?". The flight school, knowing that the truth may lead to a lost sale, tends to sugar-coat the job outlook, and must attempt to close the sale without running afoul, ethically speaking (although clearly some outfits aren't too concerned that). The answer is usually something along the lines of, "depends on what's available", or, "every graduate is offered an interview" or some such thing.

Just beware, and do it for the love, because you sure as shit won't be doing it for the money.

[Wacko]

I know of one flight school in the Calgary area... $15/hour flying. You'll have to work pretty hard to get 100 hours per month (keep in mind weather, unexpected a/c down time etc) Do the math. I think instructor rates in and around Calgary have gone up in the past short while but I doubt you'll get more than $17 when you start off... To get some extra cash you can teach ground school... at least a guaranteed paycheck. The swings in income are nuts. In the winter you can fly 10 hours in the whole month! (Shorter time, shitty weather)

More and more guys are taking up ramp jobs at potential employers while teaching. It brings them steady income, and a foot in the door when they are "employable". (1000-1500 hrs).

On the flip side I've noticed schools are getting more and more flexible with schedules...

The only instructors who are making above poverty line wages in Calgary are class 1-2's. To get there is probably at best 2 years.

As for your age... I would really research this. If you're looking at a career in instructing, I doubt you'll have any barriers to entry however if you're looking at charter type flying.... there is no shortage of low time guys who don't need to support anyone or stay in any one place.... *shrug*

[Wacko]

The problem with the profession of instructing is that your class IV rating is basically a coupon for a job that's only good at one store.

An instructor candidate is a potential customer, and flight schools will generally say whatever it takes to get a customer. The first question a potential instructor candidate asks is obviously, "what are my chances of getting a job here once I'm done the rating?". The flight school, knowing that the truth may lead to a lost sale, tends to sugar-coat the job outlook, and must attempt to close the sale without running afoul, ethically speaking (although clearly some outfits aren't too concerned that). The answer is usually something along the lines of, "depends on what's available", or, "every graduate is offered an interview" or some such thing.

Just beware, and do it for the love, because you sure as @#$! won't be doing it for the money.

Job outlook for Calgary in the Summer of 08 is good... realllly good ... for now

[SkyWolfe]

Better get used to it.

[Hoov]

Thanks Skywolfe, now I'm hungry.

[Lurch]

You can expect 15-20 for the first 2 years. The club instructors are averaging 60-70 hours per month (Flight Time) I think the class IVs are getting $20/HR ( I may be off a buck or two), Quick math puts that at $14.5 to 17 per year, T4s just came out and I know a few that made 14 for last year and that is working pretty hard for the year (poor bastards, literally).

Keep your day job, unless you have a sugar mama

Lurch

[small penguin]

Keep in mind thought that.. at least here... pretty much all the instructors are there only to time build. One told me up front he didnt give an F about instructing, he just did it for the free PIC time. While most arent that... blunt about it; a lot of the instructors here just want fast and free PIC time to go onto future endeavours. So being paid dirt (17K ish lets say) isnt so bad IMO.

If you want to instruct because you ... want to instruct, though, then the money isnt exactly there. But theres a difference. The instructor who actually likes/wants to instructs gets more students than the one who just wants easy PIC time.

One instructor at the club can get easy 5-7 or more bookings a day, five days a week. A lot of the others get maybe 3 bookings.

As everyone said, dont quit your day job. Ideally, work a good paying job full time, and do instructing on weekends and possibly on certain evenings as well.

[Tim]

If you can manage to get on with a school thats got a contract with an overseas airline you can work you're way up fairly quickly. It might mean a relocation though. The good thing about it is there is never a shortage of students and if you wanna bust your hump you can upgrade quickly. I went from class 4 to class 2 in just over a year. I work with another guy that did it in 6 months (15 hr days, 6 days a week). Expect to make less than 20 as a 4, slightly more than 20 as a 3 and 30+ as a 2. You can get to 40+ as an instructor but it usually means taking on more non-flying duties (more groundschool or admin work).

[small penguin]

I think Gander Flying Club is still training Chinese students.

[atpl53]

Mark,
There has been good insight offered here by the previous posters.

My advice would be to NOT instruct because you are sick of your desk job. Teach because you love to teach...fly because you live to fly...and when you combine what you love to do with what you live to do you will most likely become a great instructor. I became a flight instructor at age 40. I worked for below poverty wages, filling in for absentee instructors who were time building, traveled the Victor highways in my car putting in a day here and there at several flight schools. I was able to do this because of my love and determination to fly. (And that doesn't mean that there are not times of great discouragement)

When I wasn't flying I worked doing odd jobs and in the evenings I attended classes at the local college learning how to be a better teacher. I too failed to understand the 'concept' that while you may be promised a teaching position once you have your class IV, it is not guaranteed. I traveled to every flight school within 300Km of where I lived offering my services only to be told the same thing "we hire those instructors who go through OUR program".

Determination,(read that as 'stupidity') combined with a wife who supported me (and had a real job making real money), I finally landed a full time teaching position. T4 at the end of year one $8,900.00. Subtract costs and I paid for the privilege of flight instructing. Year two was better. I worked from whenever the doors opened in the morning to beyond when they closed at night. (CARs flight and duty times do not apply to flight instructors). By the end of year two I was a class II making approx. 28% of what I had been making prior to pursuing a career in aviation.(try justifying that to your wife!!!!)

Fourteen years later I am not instructing. The cost in lost income in the first 5 years is in the range of $100 - 125 thousand dollars versus staying at what I was doing. However, every day I fly, regardless of weather or dispatchers or chief pilots or maintenance or ATC, it is the best view in the world.

[C-GPFG]

I got sick of my desk job at age 25.

From the Instructor Flight Time thread...this is at a higher paying flight school that pays $30/hr to start.

...In the GTA I'd say 65% of the year is flyable with a day or two off a week. Semi busy I'd say is 3.5 hours booked a day. Less 5% for no shows and no go's. So...

65% of 365 x 3.5 = 830 - 5% = 788 hours

Toronto Airways starts off at $30.00? for a class IV

788 x $30 = $23,640 before taxes. Take home would be around $21,000

[F21]

All depends where you go and how the industry is. I started at a wee flying school after 9/11 and made 5k my first year. By my second year I was up to $25k. Third year I was CFI and making $60k. If you're at a little school, now that business is good again, you should do $15k your first year, but if you go to a big school (read Chinese or Indian) you wouldn't sit around and make over $30k in your first year. If the industry tanks again - be ready for 5k a year again.

[co-joe]

I made 8 Grand my first year instructing. At least you'll be below the basic personal exemption...

[Hoov]

All of this is just sad. I mean seriously if they added an extra 10 or 15 at the end of every lesson for the instructor I dont think the student would complain that much. Especially not if they knew the real story. Wow, just wow. An extra 10 or 15 is shit too, but it's better.

[1000 HP]

I made $14 per hour instructing in 1989. About 5 years later, I went back to the same school to rent a plane, and the poor bastards were only making $11 per hour. And those rates were only for flying hours. If I came in and there was no flying, then I got nothing. The Kraft Diner was only for the Class 3 and up guys. I ate superstore brand...