Helijet

flyboeing · Post by **flyboeing** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:00 pm

Anyone heard how the 1900's are doing? Heard from a first officer i work that if loads don't pick up they'll get rid of it...... but i have also heard they are thinking of getting a second and doing YWG runs????? Weird

Spitfire · Post by **Spitfire** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:14 pm

They are in YWG doing S&W trips to St Teresa Point. They just sent the one from BC out.

Circuit-Jockey · Post by **Circuit-Jockey** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:19 pm

Ah...S&W finally used all of the Manitoba carriers?? Guess it's time to screw some out of province carriers! Good luck making money with that machine in northern manitoba...how many operators does it take to teach the same "1900 can't make money lesson"??

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:11 am

I can't believe Morris is still finding suckers to come and do the S&W thing. This is his 5th company to do S&W. From the initial, to Ministic, to Perimeter, to Wasaya, and now this.

You cannot make money with the 1900 when you are constantly having to restrict yourself because of a 3200 foot runway. Not to mention the fact that half the seats are given away.

Apparently he had been looking at trying to get Wild Country out of YRL to do it with a PC-12 a few months back after Wasaya smartened up and pulled out.

tripleseven · Post by **tripleseven** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:27 am

I've never seen a 1900 prop nearly as beaten up as a junkstream or diesel dildo prop.

. . · Post by **. .** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:11 am

Was skyward ever involved with the s&w show, or were they smart enough to aviod it?

It seems funny that all these companies are losing cash on this contract. How are the companies payed out for their planes? I would have thought they would lease them to S&W at a rate that would ensure profit. That way if they were only flying half loads off non-rev passengers it wouldn't matter a bit.

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:39 pm

forgive my ignorance whats "S&W" hiding

Hot Fuel · Post by **Hot Fuel** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:52 pm

St Theresa Point & Wasagamack...two communities in Northern Manitoba, a local YWG has over the years talked a number of airlines into operating flights from YWG into YST...the various airlines have come up with a rate that S & W would pay for the aircraft. S & W in turn charged whatever unit toll rate they wished for the seats. (just like endless suggested) For the most part the carrier dosn't care about bums in the seats. However most of the fares charged to the passengers come in the form of purchase order ( are you seeing a recievables problem yet) cash or no form of payment at all...ie freebies. The bills to the airline mount, at some point the carrier says engough is engough and they pull the aircraft. What I've never been able to figure out is how the middle man gets his money...that is engough to make a living and engough to want to keep talking carriers into a scheme that nevers generates engough cash to pay for the aircraft.

. . · Post by **. .** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:16 pm

the operators should just tell s&w that they'll take payment for the month in advance. no pay = no fly. you'd think that would solve the problem pretty quickly

Hot Fuel · Post by **Hot Fuel** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:35 pm

I'm told that at least one of the previous carriers went so far as to handle the receivables and payables themselves to ensure they got theirs first, I think its a slow death over there...over time the debt to the airline builds because the flight time builds faster than the receivables get collected. There in lies the problem...the receivables are very tempting to the carrier, it looks worthwhile...the money in right there in black and white...unfortunetly thats where it remains, in black and white on the accountants books and you get sucked deeper down the hole.

CAPGEN · Post by **CAPGEN** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:14 pm

Disco Stu wrote:I can't believe Morris is still finding suckers to come and do the S&W thing. This is his 5th company to do S&W. From the initial, to Ministic, to Perimeter, to Wasaya, and now this.

You cannot make money with the 1900 when you are constantly having to restrict yourself because of a 3200 foot runway. Not to mention the fact that half the seats are given away.

What I heard was that S&W wanted a 1900 for all the trips, but once Wasaya started and all the flights were restricted, they realized that it wasn't going to work, so they went for the PC-12s in there, and shortly thereafter Wasaya was counting down the days until thier contract with S&W was up.

In the days after it was up, Skyward in a King Air and Keystone in the 99 were sharing the two trips a day, but Keystone did it all summer and into the fall, twice a day, every day. From what I understand First Nations Transport was either working with them, or managing thier (S&W) operation. I don't know how far that arrangement extends, they have gotten a few new aircraft in the past couple of months, but as far as I know, they don't move S&W pax around, not out of YWG anyway.

But what the hell do I know, I watched Helijet taxi in there last week, and that is as much as I know.

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:04 pm

endless wrote:I would have thought they would lease them to S&W at a rate that would ensure profit. That way if they were only flying half loads off non-rev passengers it wouldn't matter a bit.

This assumes that S&W pays their bills. Hard to do with only half the plane generating revenue.

I noticed Keystone is still running PCD in there. Apparently the other day they were low level VFR going to YST when the entire province was 300'. Gotta keep the planes busy I guess.

I think Skyward is smart enough to stay away. Far away. Not sure they are even running the 1900 into YST.

Ifly · Post by **Ifly** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:43 pm

Disco Stu, come on man. We don't fly any of our aircraft at 300' anywhere, especially the 99, burning 800lbs/hr doesn't sound too brilliant to me. I think you're getting us confused with the guys that fly VFR at 300' all over Manitoba out of St Andrews.

S&W uses the 99 to fill in when the 1900 breaks, or they have too many people. They were in talks with the owners to set up a contract with us, but then the 1900 arrived. They gave us no information until the day it arrived. Probably better off that way.

R580XD · Post by **R580XD** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:27 am

Ifly wrote:We don't fly any of our aircraft at 300' anywhere, especially the 99, burning 800lbs/hr doesn't sound too brilliant to me. I think you're getting us confused with the guys that fly VFR at 300' all over Manitoba out of St Andrews.

BS

Flying Newf · Post by **Flying Newf** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:20 pm

R580xd How are things over at Bolton!

Keep the blue side up!

centerstored · Post by **centerstored** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:27 pm

It's amazing...this middle man, Morris can fill his pockets with this operation! And believe me, he does! He has no airplanes, no equipment, no infrastructure...nothing...only a really easy way to rip companies off.

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:17 am

centerstored wrote:...only a really easy way to rip companies off.

Don't forget about the good people of St. Teresa Point and Wasagomach (sp?) who are having some outsider whittie skimming off the top!

. . · Post by **. .** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:23 am

it's either morris or someone from the band. i suppose it's easier to just keep him skimming then to get the band involved.

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:20 pm

endless wrote:it's either morris or someone from the band. i suppose it's easier to just keep him skimming then to get the band involved.

It's both. And it goes all the way to the top.