Aviation Career Problem....Maybe??

[johnnybow]

Ok i got my PPL last june and was thinking about doing my CPL. This week i got arrested for DUI and blew in that machine for .105. I was just wondering if that completly screws my chances to persue a career in aviation as a pilot. I talked to a friend thats a helicopter pilot and he said the employer asked him if he ever got convicted for DUI. My friend also said it practically makes me not insurable on an airplane. So before i even think about doing my CPL and paying all that money, i just wanted to inform myself.

Thanks.

[looproll]

Sorry to hear about your conviction. Stay crime free and apply for a pardon down the road. I've never been asked about any convictions.

[looproll]

wait a minute, you've only been arrested for impaired driving. Get a good lawyer!

Also, no aircraft insurance company has ever asked me about any convictions.

[E-Flyer]

Isn't the background check only 10 years back?

[Inverted2]

I know of a couple of guys who got caught leaving Arizonas and got good lawyers and got off on the charges. It'll cost you though! Good luck!

[seniorpumpkin]

First of all, a DUI is practically the easiest thing in the world to get out of legally speaking. Personally I think it's kind of sad, but there are a gazillion loopholes any decent lawyer could probably find for you. For example cops aren't "properly" trained to use the Breathalyzer's.
Secondly, I thought having a DUI was practically a requirement to get a job as a bush pilot. Since becoming a bush pilot myself I've met plenty of alcoholics! I'm not sure how many of them got slapped with a DUI though.

Edited for spelling, maybe I shouldn't drink while typing

[Rockie]

Try and get aquitted if you can and it will save you a lot of headache and worry...and don't ever do it again. If you can't get aquitted you can apply for a pardon after a certain period of time to have it removed from your record. Be absolutely up front about it if an employer asks, don't try and avoid responsibility for it because that will turn them off you in a heartbeat. Do not lie about it because they will find out and you will never get a flying job anywhere ever again. Everyone makes mistakes but it's how you deal with it and conduct yourself afterward that will determine your success. Do the right thing and you shouldn't have any problem.

But don't ever do it again.

[Tube Driver]

If you are convicted, you are screwed. You will not be able to fly into the United States for years. Nobody will hire a pilot who cannot cross the border. This is reality in the post 911 world.

[sanjet]

A DUI conviction is very seriouse. A lot of companies ask about it during the interview or on the application, not only for airlines. Get a good lawyer, I wouldn't continue the flight training until this is over.

[Rudder Bug]

I had a DUI 12 years ago. It stayed on my driver abstract for ten years, but never had any problems at the US and many other customs within that period. Maybe I'm lucky.

Do like me though, learn your lesson and NEVER DO IT AGAIN!!!

Good luck!

[. .]

If you ever want to work for AC then it's a career ender. They specifically ask you, and then have you sign a waver so they can look back in your criminal record. So lying isn't going to work. Apparently the loopholes on the DUI are being closed. There was an article in the globe and mail this week about it. Quite frankly it's gone on too long. If you lost your license for life on a first offense it would be certainly be taken more seriously.

[Hedley]

If you ever want to work for AC then it's a career ender

Another good reason not to work there.

[seniorpumpkin]

Perhaps I've been mis-informed, sorry.

[Four1oh]

but, if you gear up an airplane, they'll forgive any other history you might have, and you'll be a shoo-in!!!

[Widow]

Ah yes, the end of the Carter defense. Bill C-2 (which contains Bill C-32) received royal assent on February 28th.

Toronto Sun: Closing a loophole for impaired drivers

[Ogee]

You cannot be denied employment directly as a result of any criminal conviction. It's part of most human rights legislation in Canadian provinces. There are exceptions of course. You won't be getting on as a pilot with the RCMP. You may have trouble getting a restricted area pass, but I doubt that for DUI.

DUI is not an indictable offense in the US. You are not barred from entry into the US for a DUI.

There's a reason companies don't ask about criminal records when none of the flying involves the US. If you can't deny someone a job because of a criminal record, then why ask the question? Another problem is that if you ask it, and the guy answers that he does, and you don't hire him, he can have you in court saying you didn't hire him because he had a criminal record. That may not have been the reason at all, but it costs a lot of money to go to court over it.

Canadian insurance companies don't ask that question, but I have seen it asked on US insurance forms.

They also ask on your US pilots medical. I don't think you can hold a commercial pilots license in the US if you have a record, but I may be wrong on that. Maybe its the ATPL.

The law in Canada is that for the most part, once you have served your sentence or paid your fine for whatever you are supposed to have done, you have "paid your debt" to use that awfully stupid term. You are on exactly the same footing as any other Canadian when it comes to jobs, rights, whatever.

I don't know what the big deal is. I read a few years back that 1 in 10 adult Canadians has a criminal record, or had one and had a pardon. I also read that 3 out of 10 Canadians have admitted to committing a criminal offense at one time or another in their lives. Which seems about right. It's known that over 10 million Canadians have smoked pot at least once in their lives, and that is a criminal offense.

Maybe its just me, but I don't think much of the advice to get a good lawyer and "beat" the charge. Drunk driving kills hundreds of people in Canada every year. There is a very good reason it is against the law. If I were an employer and were considering someone who I knew had counselled a guilty person to try and beat the law, I'm sure I wouldn't hire that person, because that is a person who advocates circumvention of the law, probably not someone I'd want in a cockpit of one of my airplanes.

For what its worth, my advice would be to live up to your responsibilities, which is what I think any employer would see as the first quality of a pilot. If you are guilty, plead guilty and take the consequences. I doubt that at this stage in your career it would make the slightest bit of difference. You are eligible for a pardon in I think three years.

the single greatest argument against this bullshit about records is Robert Piche. Five years for smuggling marijuana into the United States, hired by Air Transat, pulls off one of the greatest feats of airmanship in aviation history in the Azores with that deadstick landing.

Correction on the RCMP. DUI probably doesn't make any difference for hiring with them. I know a guy who went into the Mounties about 15 years back. He told me he was the only one in his class who did not have a criminal record. All of the rest had some kind of juvenile record, which apparently doesn't disqualify you for the Mounties.

[. .]

Ah yes, the end of the Carter defense. Bill C-2 (which contains Bill C-32) received royal assent on February 28th.

Toronto Sun: Closing a loophole for impaired drivers

Hard to believe it's taken so long to fix this problem.

[just curious]

I don't know about many 705 companies, but our company requires a criminal records check for our international contracts. Canada's laws might apply in your favour, but if you fly outside our borders, you must comply with the more strict of the laws of Canada's and the country in which you are in.

If you were going to remain a domestic charter guy, I don't know that it would make much difference.

I would take up the services of a lawyer so that if convicted, you can start the process of having a pardon applied to your conviction, and having the offense expunged from your records. I have no idea how long this takes. But if it is a limiting factor for AC, and International and the States, it is something worth pursuing.

The advise offered earlier about Never letting this happen ever again is valid advice. You would of course be taking this as gospel right now. What I'd suggest is that you re-read this thread every year. Yelling and screaming at this point is counterproductive. Everyone has done something stupid in their past. What you chose to do with it is up to you.

Good Luck.

[Rockie]

If you ever want to work for AC then it's a career ender.

Absolute bullshit.

If you are up front, accept responsibility, and do not try and hide it a DUI will not be held against you. You will be asked on your application and again when you do your medical. What you say to the Doc will help him determine if it was a stupid mistake or an alcohol problem and he will make his recommendation accordingly. Try and evade responsibility or lie and you will be toast. Otherwise you will be OK.

[Downwind]

A DUI will not affect insurance rates on an airplane and the chances of not getting an entry level job because of one is not likely. The hardest thing you will have to worry about is getting a ride to the airport or seaplane base. I wouldnt worry about it.

[Justwannafly]

I'm not going to go on about my views on drunk driving cuase that would intail a lot of cursing...BUT I will give you some advice...if convicted stay in Canada untill you get pardon'd...cuase the US don't accept international pardons...which is to say if once on their system always in their system....& a big prob down the road for you

[Tim Tam]

I'm not going to go on about my views on drunk driving cuase that would intail a lot of cursing...BUT I will give you some advice...if convicted stay in Canada untill you get pardon'd...cuase the US don't accept international pardons...which is to say if once on their system always in their system....& a big prob down the road for you

Again, more bullshit.

It is a misdemeanor in the states. Yes it will show up in their computers, but in no way will they refuse entry.

If you have set your sights on AC, wait 3 or 5 years, (depends if it is a Summary or Indictable offence) apply for the pardon, then hope for the best. All the company can ask you is:

"Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence that you have not received a pardon?"

Any other questions are illegal. Know your rights.

If you have received a pardon, you are fine. Trust me on this..

Accept your mistake, count your lucky stars that you did not hurt anyone, and LEARN from it. PREACH it to others. Again and again. You now have more responsibility towards others because you have learned from your error. Imagine if the outcome had been different..

[Alex YCV]

Ah yes, the end of the Carter defense. Bill C-2 (which contains Bill C-32) received royal assent on February 28th.

Toronto Sun: Closing a loophole for impaired drivers

read closely, this change still won't really close the loophole, because the statements of a third party as to your level of consumption could be considered proof that the machine did not read well.

It's all in how the lawyers play with it.

[albertdesalvo]

If you are guilty, plead guilty and take the consequences.

If you follow this advice, you are obviously insane. Learn your lesson, don't do it again, but exercise your right to defend yourself as vigorously as you can afford. To do otherwise is sheer folly, as any lawyer will tell you. You could ask OJ Simpson about it.

[albertdesalvo]

a DUI is practically the easiest thing in the world to get out of legally speaking. Personally I think it's kind of sad, but there are a gazillion loopholes any decent lawyer could probably find for you. For example cops aren't "properly" trained to use the Breathalyzer's.

This is also very bad advice. Those cops *are* properly trained, and they carry certificates to prove it. The roadside device is one thing, but the test you're given at the station is always performed by a certified operator, and challenging his credentials is a waste of time. It is extremely difficult to beat an impaired driving charge. If you blow in the machine and it says you're over the limit, you are pretty much sunk unless you have $30,000 in your back pocket to finance your defence. Even then, it's an uphill climb.