The English test came up in conversation again as a student here will have to take it even though English (albeit colonial English) is his first language.

I did a proper radio exam for the radio licence... Besides a short written exam there was an oral/aural exam as well as you sat in a cubicle with a headset on, connected to a tape player and an intercom with an instructor on the other end and out of sight.
I had to copy an airways clearance (known here as an IFR clearance) and then do a simulated flight in a de Havilland Dove!
All sorts of incidents took place, I had an engine fire, during the trip I saw people in the Seven Estuary in a dinghy signal for help, and then, when I had to call over Daventry, I heard someone else making a Mayday call!

To me the above is a far better test of the English language.

pffft... you know what's even funnier? I know of at least one "examiner" who native English speakers have a hard time understanding. LONG LIVE TRANSPORT CANADA!

Several, but their licence is restricted to a 300 mile radius of Conception Bay South

And Fort McMurray.

Cat Driver wrote:And Fort McMurray.

I don't know if I should laugh or cry... it's so true

I'm out of the loop on this one...what's this about Fort McMurray??

Fort McMurray, Ab = New Newfoundland

Fort McMurray quite leteraly is the second largest city in Newfoundland. There are more newfies there than from anywhere else except St. Johns. Of course if all the newfies retruend to the rock at once it would sink.

MichaelP wrote:The English test came up in conversation again as a student here will have to take it even though English (albeit colonial English) is his first language.

I did a proper radio exam for the radio licence... Besides a short written exam there was an oral/aural exam as well as you sat in a cubicle with a headset on, connected to a tape player and an intercom with an instructor on the other end and out of sight.
I had to copy an airways clearance (known here as an IFR clearance) and then do a simulated flight in a de Havilland Dove!
All sorts of incidents took place, I had an engine fire, during the trip I saw people in the Seven Estuary in a dinghy signal for help, and then, when I had to call over Daventry, I heard someone else making a Mayday call!

To me the above is a far better test of the English language.

Isn't the ICAO Level 1 LPI a necessity for airlines in Europe and Middle East? LPI being the language proficiency index.

I think it's a good thing to put out there. It is hard to crack out what some people are saying especially at busy times in the Glenn Valley Area and Chilliwack for the ATF Procedures. Clear and Concise aspects should be the number one importance in the radio call from a pilot. I'm not saying that this test will determine that you're suitable to speak english on a radio, but it may at least be a good start.

Yeah... but like always... transport didn't think this through. I didn't have to take the test but to my understanding it's to the effect of... "what's the weather like?" ... etc.. they should have focused it to the type of language you will hear in the air.

Agreed

Clear and Concise aspects should be the number one importance in the radio call from a pilot

Yeah, sure, but not many pilots know what "concise" means,
esp those that end a long-winded radio call with (pet peeve):

Any conflicts, please advise Cessna One Fifty Two Foxtrot
Alpha Bravo Charlie on One Two Two Point Eight

Gee, thanks so much for unnecessarily repeating your
complete call sign, redundantly including the comm
frequency, and insulting my intelligence.

Because, see, if you didn't tell me just then to speak
up if there were any conflicts, why, I wouldn't have
known to push the transmit button to speak up, and
I quietly would have had a mid-air collision with you

It's the aeronautical equivalent of one of those
obnoxious "Baby On Board" bumper stickers.

I'm so proud you two finally figured out where
to stick it. And now, nine months later, I
was going to purposely have a car accident
with you, except that now that I see that you
have a screaming, sh1tting, barfing kid strapped
into a puke-covered Eddie Bauer baby seat in
your minivan, I won't

Any conflicts, please advise Cessna One Fifty Two Foxtrot
Alpha Bravo Charlie on One Two Two Point Eight

I agree with you regarding that to some extent; however, I honestly can't hear what some student's are saying. Especially the ones with foreign accents so the last part might be beneficial.

Haha, maybe what school's could do in ground school is to actually teach concise methods and clear approaches to radio calls? I think that would be beneficial. Then the LPI the pilot's take would test them on that.

Just a thought

maybe what school's could do in ground school is to actually teach concise methods and clear approaches to radio calls?

That would take all of 5 minutes.

Every radio call has the form of the "Four W's":

1) Who you are talking to
2) Who you are
3) Where you are
4) What you are going to do

eg:

ButteWhole Traffic
Cessna Golf Alpha Bravo Charlie
Five south at two thousand
Inbound One Four

This really isn't rocket science.

Note in the above, in the interests of
brevity, I have omitted the exact model
of single engine Cessna (gasp).

Really, apart from you and your mother,
does anyone else really care if you are
flying a 120/140/150/152/170/172/175
or 177/180/182/185/205/206/207/210?

They're all slow anyways, so what does it
matter?

If you're into wasting bandwidth, why not also
tell the world what colour it's painted, and what
you had for dinner last night, and which hangar
you intend to park in front of?

Conflicts please advise ...

Argh!

Having just done the proficiency test, i can honestly say the questions asked really have nothing to do with talking to atc...there were two questions were the examiner "pretended" to be ATC however the majority of the exam contained questions such as...

"sooo you are taking a friend on a trip...they have too many bags, how do you explain to them that they need to leave some luggage behind?"

another scenario
"the person at the counter of the FBO instructs you to use the storage closet to store some of the extra baggage...they point you at a wall that has several keys on it...how do you ask which key is for the storage closet?"
Insulting to the canadian born and bred, i would have to say yes!!!

The questions that simulated talking to atc went something like...
having been given a piece of paper with a diagram that had a lake, a river, a bridge and a forest...i was asked if i was lost and in contact with atc and they asked me to describe the terrain beneath me how would i describe it...uhm ya there's a lake beneath me, a river in front of me with a bridge and a forest to the west...miraculously atc comes back and tells me exactly where i am...next question...

No questions simulated speaking with phonetics, or keeping transmissions short and to the point...waste of 50 bucks i tell ya...

it's been the hardest test in my life

Q1 = where are you working ?
Q2 = what are you doing ?
Q3 = what is your licence number ?

moouahaha ridiculous.....