Mass exodus at Wasaya

[anonypl]

It seems that pilots and other employees just can't get away from Wasaya fast enough. In the past week, in Pickle Lake alone, at least six base workers (all the way up the ranks) have resigned. Many pilots from YQT, YXL and YRL have jumped ship as well. All this on the brink of the busy season means that it's going to be a rough start.

I really can't blame any of them. As has been posted before, the ground staff and 'wannabes' are treated rather poorly. Even the title 'wannabe' is pretty disrespectful, and it's thrown around in common usage in the company.

With the pilots forced to unionize, it really goes to show you what Wasaya seems to think of its employees. It's really a fight to get anything out of the company, and a decent wage is the foremost of those fights. As for renovating our dump of a workplace - that's so far down the list of priorities that you'd be wasting your time just to ask for it.

The vast majority of the crews very negative views of the company that employs them, which is a pretty good explanation of why they're either unionizing, or getting as far away as possible. The morale here is just about as low as it gets.

For those that might be tempted into filling the new vacancies, be forewarned that there are a lot of changes needed here before it will be a worthwhile work environment.

[Doc]

Well, I've seen the morale at Wasaya lower than a snake's ass in a waggon wheel rut in Death Valley. But, some of the guys I know there are pretty positive. Or, at least they were last week. Your post sounds like "sour grapes". I'm sure everybody will put a lot of stock and trade in the bitter rantings of a one time poster. If you didn't like it at Wasaya, you're better off out of it. But every company has it's own special problems...even Wasaya.
Wasaya is the original home of the "wannabe". It's a throw back from the time of Kelner. It always will be. I say again....If you are a pilot, find a job as a pilot! If you're working the ramp....it's YOUR fault! So, when you pack your bags, have the good manners to go quietly into the night like a gentleman.

Gawd! I'm sticking up for Wasaya?? Somebody get me another drink!

[spin drift]

Well sounds pretty harsh to me, almost like a disgruntled employee, cause i know for a fact that its not that bad, keep in mind you're not exactly working for Emirates or Cathay.

My opinion stop whining and find another job.
Sincerely Good-Luck!

[2R]

Oh that is too bad i heard they were getting a pay raise next week

A friend of mine used to quote his old boss "All leave is cancelled until moral improves "

[anonypl]

When I sat down to write the above post, it was my intention to be objective - but if it comes off as sour grapes I suppose I missed the mark. Yes, I'm one of the ex-Wasayite, but my intention was not to slander the company so much as to prevent others from entering one of these vacancies uninformed.

Take it as you will.

And by all means, talk to those in the know before getting on board.

[Cat Driver]

Were you working on the ramp or a pilot?

[anonypl]

I was on the ground. Through my dealings with flight crews I can tell you that none of those I met are any happier with the company, just more tied to it.

[pelmet]

Are the pilots all on a 2 on, 2 off schedule?

[co-joe]

I can't stand the "if you don't like it leave" mentality that is everywhere in this business. All it would take is a few people to stand up for what is fair and right and conditions would improve. But noooooo everybody keeps their mouths shut and it just gets worse and worse until the good people quit and nothing improves.

No idea what it's like at Wasaya though.

[anonypl]

Are the pilots all on a 2 on, 2 off schedule?

Only the HS748 crews, and apparently some of them are flying PC12s on their days off to earn extra dough.

[Tibor]

Man it must be rough to work a ramp for a couple of months, then jump into a turbine with 250 hrs........phuq

[bravowhiskey]

Man it must be rough to work a ramp for a couple of months, then jump into a turbine with 250 hrs........phuq

right seat c-208 part time and work ramp part time, i mean full time... awesome

[Uncle Leo]

I've never seen a post use so many words and say so little. I'm guessing you weren't captain of the debate team nor did you win any awards for pursuasive writing.

"I left Wasaya, because I didn't like it, and lots of other people don't like it, Wasaya is bad they didn't treat me well" is basically what you came out with. So enlightening...how does this help anyone? If you have a problem with working conditions, maybe you ought to come right out and say what the problem is. Is it unsafe, did you miss your dog, was the YPL grocery store not selling the right kind of product for your hairstyle, was the pay too low, did the YPL girls laugh at you, do you not want to change for gym class, is the schedule too much for you? What is it that you're trying to say boy, is there a fire at the old mill? Where's the fire? Show us.

[SmokinJoe]

First of all let me say that I do fly for wasaya and the ground staff with a few exceptions has been getting worse over the years. The ground staff in YPL over the last year have had the rep of being lazy. It wouldn’t surprise me that a vast majority of them chose to leave because they were told that if they didn't shape up then they wouldn’t get trained up. It's happened before where rampies were skipped ahead or told that they wouldn’t get trained because they were unreliable or slackers. I'm not saying all of them are bad, there are a few that i know of who are very good and would have skipped ahead of a lot of the rampies that were hired before them because they are hard workers. I'm sick of these rampies complaining that it's been 6 months that they have been there and they're not trained up yet when half of them can’t even drive a forklift right or load a Caravan or PC12 right. I've seen the rampies load the airplanes and have them sitting on their tail stands and wonder why it's loaded wrong. As far as you go anonypl, what do you know about the fact that we unionized, you've probably been here 6 months if that, there are a lot of issues from the past and present that affected our decision as a group (not forced) to unionize.

I just think that a lot of the new rampies that go to YPL or YRL expect that they are going to be there on the ground for 2 months before they get trained up and it's solely based on when they were hired. If you come to YPL, bust your ass, keep your nose clean then that very may well happen, but if you slack off, talk back, show no initiative then how do you expect management to say to the training capt's that you’re ready to get trained. If you don’t like it there then fine, you’re better off to leave and go elsewhere. I hope you didn't think YPL would be bikini clad women and palm trees because you'd be sadly mistaken.

I do hope that the rampies that were there that are doing really well do stay, they will go far within the company. It's my opinion that wasaya is a good company to work for. The flying experience is great, the machines are great (yes even the 748 IMO) and most of the people are great and fun to work with. End Rant

[Cat Driver]

I'm sure happy I was in aviation before you had to work the ramp to fly.

[. .]

I would actually take this as the perfect time to move up to YPL and start on the ramp. 6 guys that WOULD have been infront of you for training have just voted themselves off the island. It truly doesn't get better than that. Realistically if you were the first of the new wave up there you could probably expect your ramp time to be cut in half.

I usually am against the whole "we had it harder" kind of thing, but god. How many of the ramp guys even spend a year on the ramp now? You look at some of the current 1900 captains and former workers and there was plenty who put in more than 3 years in YPL. It sounds sick, but I had a blast when I was up there. Worked my ass off, suffered lots of indignity, but did it with the best company I've ever been around. Everyone made it to the flying, and it jump-started everyones career. You certainly can't find many companies out there where you can start chucking freight and end up captain on a 705 large turbine. Donny is a stand-up guy too, with real expectations. He worked his way from the ramp himself, so it's not like he doesn't know what it takes.

I think you'll eventually look back and wonder what could have been if you stayed. You're going to find that every entry level job is just that, an entry level job where you're treated like shit. If you had begun flying you would have found the working conditions to improve drastically. If you still couldn't take it, then you could have quit with a whack of turbine time under your belt and have been hired just about anywhere in todays industry.

Anyway, I've been there and can say with certainty it's not an easy job. However, in the long run it was totally worth it for me, and I certainly wouldn't take it back. It's not everywhere you get to meet people like Jerry Wazny, Charlie Beaver, etc. Is Charlie Still working there, or has he left to run the KL3 community radio full time?

[anonypl]

First of all let me say that I do fly for wasaya and the ground staff with a few exceptions has been getting worse over the years. The ground staff in YPL over the last year have had the rep of being lazy. It wouldn’t surprise me that a vast majority of them chose to leave because they were told that if they didn't shape up then they wouldn’t get trained up. It's happened before where rampies were skipped ahead or told that they wouldn’t get trained because they were unreliable or slackers. I'm not saying all of them are bad, there are a few that i know of who are very good and would have skipped ahead of a lot of the rampies that were hired before them because they are hard workers.

I can't disagree there were some specimens in the last batch that were less than spectacular. Unfortunately, the way that the mode of progression is set up the base is more important than the individual. Those who choose who progresses are very far removed from the candidates for progression. Hard work was never recognized, and there were vultures waiting for the next mistake to deride and generalize to the whole base.

I'm sick of these rampies complaining that it's been 6 months that they have been there and they're not trained up yet when half of them can’t even drive a forklift right or load a Caravan or PC12 right. I've seen the rampies load the airplanes and have them sitting on their tail stands and wonder why it's loaded wrong.

In YPL we have a person in charge of load control. Every C208 or PC12 load is arranged and supervised by this person. An incorrectly loaded plane is the fault of no one but the load controller. It's this attitude that is much of the reason why I left. Every problem seems to be the 'wannabes' fault.

As far as you go anonypl, what do you know about the fact that we unionized, you've probably been here 6 months if that, there are a lot of issues from the past and present that affected our decision as a group (not forced) to unionize.

Fair enough. I wasn't privy to the unionization meetings. Though I think it's safe to say that the unionization definitely wasn't the product of a happy work environment.

I just think that a lot of the new rampies that go to YPL or YRL expect that they are going to be there on the ground for 2 months before they get trained up and it's solely based on when they were hired. If you come to YPL, bust your ass, keep your nose clean then that very may well happen, but if you slack off, talk back, show no initiative then how do you expect management to say to the training capt's that you’re ready to get trained. If you don’t like it there then fine, you’re better off to leave and go elsewhere. I hope you didn't think YPL would be bikini clad women and palm trees because you'd be sadly mistaken.

It's unfortunate that that was actually what I was told (minus the palm trees and bikinis, that is). The C208 FO's would be made in a 'few months', and would get 'lots of flying time'. As it turns out, if you're on the ground by fall there's little chance of making the Van by spring, and you'll be spending the majority of your time working the ground rather than flying.

I do hope that the rampies that were there that are doing really well do stay, they will go far within the company. It's my opinion that wasaya is a good company to work for. The flying experience is great, the machines are great (yes even the 748 IMO) and most of the people are great and fun to work with. End Rant

I really didn't want this to turn into another thread about bitching rampies, but that seems to be the way it's headed. I knew what to expect when I went to Pickle Lake, and I made my best of it. Unfortunately, my ass-busting was lost in a sea of derision, and it is now more worth my while to make a start elsewhere.

[anonypl]

I would actually take this as the perfect time to move up to YPL and start on the ramp. 6 guys that WOULD have been infront of you for training have just voted themselves off the island. It truly doesn't get better than that. Realistically if you were the first of the new wave up there you could probably expect your ramp time to be cut in half.

There are at least two people still waiting, which means the earliest the next candidate would be trained up is likely in the fall. There are few hours to be had over the winter, which means you can expect a winter and a spring before you'll be eligible for a full-time flight position (rather than a wannabe with a headset).

I usually am against the whole "we had it harder" kind of thing, but god. How many of the ramp guys even spend a year on the ramp now? You look at some of the current 1900 captains and former workers and there was plenty who put in more than 3 years in YPL. It sounds sick, but I had a blast when I was up there. Worked my ass off, suffered lots of indignity, but did it with the best company I've ever been around. Everyone made it to the flying, and it jump-started everyones career. You certainly can't find many companies out there where you can start chucking freight and end up captain on a 705 large turbine. Donny is a stand-up guy too, with real expectations. He worked his way from the ramp himself, so it's not like he doesn't know what it takes.

Perhaps I'm being an idealist, but the ideal of my best company doesn't make me suffer any indignities.

I think you'll eventually look back and wonder what could have been if you stayed. You're going to find that every entry level job is just that, an entry level job where you're treated like shit. If you had begun flying you would have found the working conditions to improve drastically. If you still couldn't take it, then you could have quit with a whack of turbine time under your belt and have been hired just about anywhere in todays industry.

Anyway, I've been there and can say with certainty it's not an easy job. However, in the long run it was totally worth it for me, and I certainly wouldn't take it back. It's not everywhere you get to meet people like Jerry Wazny, Charlie Beaver, etc. Is Charlie Still working there, or has he left to run the KL3 community radio full time?

The Waz is still there, of course, but I've never met this Beaver fellow.

[. .]

You've truly missed out without Charlie Beaver then. Good luck where ever you go, it's definitely not easy going starting out in this career. If you do actually find somewhere that treats you right as a 200hr pilot you should put up a post and let everyone know where. Any place like that would certainly deserve the positive attention.

[SmokinJoe]

I can't disagree there were some specimens in the last batch that were less than spectacular. Unfortunately, the way that the mode of progression is set up the base is more important than the individual. Those who choose who progresses are very far removed from the candidates for progression. Hard work was never recognized, and there were vultures waiting for the next mistake to deride and generalize to the whole base.

Remember this is a business here. Although the employees are a very important part of the business, management has to do what is best for the business. The ones that make the decision of who moves up have been around this business for a while, they get feedback from other employees be it from other rampies to Hawker capt's, Caravan capt's and the like. Hard work is noticed although maybe not always praised. All you have to do is work hard and your number will come up.

In YPL we have a person in charge of load control. Every C208 or PC12 load is arranged and supervised by this person. An incorrectly loaded plane is the fault of no one but the load controller. It's this attitude that is much of the reason why I left. Every problem seems to be the 'wannabes' fault.

I call BS on that one. I know that there are load masters that pick the load and stage it but you all have to work together to load the plane correctly. If your they guy in the caravan stacking the freight and you get out and see the thing sitting on the tail stand and just walk away and say "oh it's the loadmasters responsibility" then you are sadly mistaken. Speak up and say something. When I was there, if you were the one in the plane stacking, then you told them what you wanted next. If the load was nicely done then you would be the one getting the praise not the guy that dropped the pallet off at the plane. Remember you are pilots, you should know something about an aircraft's weight and balance, heavy stuff up front, light stuff in the back.

The C208 FO's would be made in a 'few months', and would get 'lots of flying time'. As it turns out, if you're on the ground by fall there's little chance of making the Van by spring, and you'll be spending the majority of your time working the ground rather than flying.

So what if you’re on the ground in the fall and have little chance of making the van by spring, you still haven't been there for a year yet. I was there for over a year and a half and that was still considered quick only a couple years ago. It's unfortunate that you were told that you would be an F/O in a few months but you have to realize that that is based solely on performance. If you perform then you will get trained up, if you don't perform then you won’t. Trust me after you are on the van and move onto the PC12 the progression happens even quicker onto the next machine. I don't know when you started there but in the summer there is lots of flying to be done on the van. I'm sorry that you didn't like it there and hopefully you find a better spot elsewhere but I can tell you from experience that working in YPL, slugging it out as a "wannabe" and progressing up through the ranks, you learn a lot about the business as well as yourself. It's not for everyone that's for sure but if you can take the heat in the summer, the cold in the winter and back again, you will look back at the whole experience as a good thing. A little hard work never hurt anyone. Good luck in your endeavours.

[Mr. North]

good post endless. And as uncle leo said, where's the fire? I could easily name a dozen companies that are losing pilots from all levels. What kind of indgnities are you suffering on the bottom rung of the ladder?

[Rudy]

What kind of changes have the pilot's union brought about so far?

[Mustard]

If Charlie B. isn't there then who is picking up the shrink wrap?

[Grey_Wolf]

What kind of changes have the pilot's union brought about so far?

Other than the infighting over the Pilot Seniority List (PSL), The Union Dues, and the Resistance by Certain Management? Nothing!

Talks are supposed to go underway in about a week from now (May 14th). Changes in the contract won't be seen till the end of the summer, maybe even as late as mid-september by my guess.

[thecaptain]

Ya'll need to quit your bitchin!!