VNAP procedures

[whiskeyonboard]

im trying to get some clarification on VNAP procedures. i fly a citation XL and according to the VNAP procedures they specify for Turbojet aircraft only....the XL and many other jets are considered Turbofans by defenition.

[Seagull]

Hi, Turbo-fans are not specifically mentioned in the CAR's or our MANOPS...for regulatory & separation purposes we consider turbojets & turbofans the same.

Hope that helps, talk to you soon.

[invertedattitude]

I believe they say "TurboJet" to differentiate from "Turboprop"

Since saying "jet aircraft only" would include aircraft like Dash-8's technically.

[whiskeyonboard]

Tubojet aircraft are much different than turboprops and tubofans. Turbo fans are much quieter. In YYZ there is specific departure procedures for aircraft types like the Lear. Which leads me to belive there are exceptions to the VANP rule.

[pelmet]

Airbuses and 777's etc are turbofan aircraft. The rule applies to them and as far as I can tell you.

[invertedattitude]

Tubojet aircraft are much different than turboprops and tubofans. Turbo fans are much quieter. In YYZ there is specific departure procedures for aircraft types like the Lear. Which leads me to belive there are exceptions to the VANP rule.

There's not many TurboJet equipped aircraft flying around these days in comparison to turbofan.

The JT8D likely being the most popular, as seen on 727's 737 classics and MD-80 series...

[bezerker]

This is a strange question to be asking. It is troubling because it means that you at minimum, are a somewhat experienced pilot on a nice jet, you are unable to utilize the AIP, CAR's, or other resources available to you and either:

1: You are an F/O who hasn't been properly trained/line indoced and is too scared or too ??? to ask the Captain/C.P./Ops Manger/Training Captains what is correct (or they don't know either).

2: You are an F/O who is flying with a Captain who doesn't know what the hell is going on.

3: You are the Captain and don't know what the hell is going on.

It unfortunately leads one to wonder what other niggly questions are running through your mind as you taxi out.

A very quick search finds a CAR's definition of a turbojet: An aircraft having a jet engine in which the energy of the jet operates a turbine, which, in turn, operates the air compressor.

To put it simply, if there is no propeller nearby, you must follow all regulations geared towards turbojets. If you don't believe me, ask your POI.

Then look at CAR 602.105
No person shall operate an aircraft at or in the vicinity of an aerodrome except in accordance with the applicable noise abatement procedures and noise control requirements specified by the Minister in the Canada Air Pilot or Canada Flight Supplement, including the procedures and requirements relating to

(a) preferential runways;

(b) minimum noise routes;

(c) hours when aircraft operations are prohibited or restricted;

(d) arrival procedures;

(e) departure procedures;

(f) duration of flights;

(g) the prohibition or restriction of training flights;

(h) VFR or visual approaches;

(i) simulated approach procedures; and

(j) the minimum altitude for the operation of aircraft in the vicinity of the aerodrome.

If the CAP or CFS says a VNAP is required for turbojet aircraft, it is pretty straight forward (many also specify turbofan and fanjets).

You may want to look at the Corporate Offenders Enforcement Action Summaries website to view the what is apparently an enforcement favorite, CAR 602.105 http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/Stand ... ummary.htm

When browsing the archives, this is fairly common example:
Corporation:
Air Ambulance Professionals Inc.

Date: Count(s): Violation: Penalty: Location:
2007/02/01 1 CAR 602.105 $3 500 Pierre Elliot Trudeau International Airport, Montreal, Que.

The company failed to conform with arrival noise abatement procedures/noise control requirements specified in the Canada Flight Supplement or Canada Air Pilot.

The reason I am being somewhat critical here, is that there are many regulations in the CARs that apply only to "turbojets", especially if you are flying for a 704 operation. Your training, dispaching, performance limitations, and line indoctrination (among other things) will be severely deficient with regards to the regs if you have been seeking non existent guidance for "turbofan" powered aircraft and ignoring reference to "turbojet" powered aircraft.

[Pratt X 3]

There's not many TurboJet equipped aircraft flying around these days in comparison to turbofan.
The JT8D likely being the most popular, as seen on 727's 737 classics and MD-80 series...

Actually, the JT8D series are turbofan engines. The ones on the 727's and the 737-200's have a bypass ratio of about 1:1 while the MD-80's have a bypass ratio of almost 2:1.

[invertedattitude]

There's not many TurboJet equipped aircraft flying around these days in comparison to turbofan.
The JT8D likely being the most popular, as seen on 727's 737 classics and MD-80 series...

Actually, the JT8D series are turbofan engines. The ones on the 727's and the 737-200's have a bypass ratio of about 1:1 while the MD-80's have a bypass ratio of almost 2:1.

I stand corrected! Thanks, always thought they were examples of turbojets, not the first or last time I've been wrong

It is an axial-flow front turbofan engine incorporating dual-spool design