I have a nephew that wants to be either a pilot or an Engineer ( Of the P. Eng. type)
is there anyone here that can tell me what they think?
We all know Im biased.
Thanks
S
Airline Pilot/ Engineer
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shower of sparks
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Re: Airline Pilot/ Engineer
follow your heart cause you'll regret it later.
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Cat Driver
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Re: Airline Pilot/ Engineer
Can't help you with the nephew, but if you have a niece you can send her my way and I'll try and give her guidance.I have a nephew that wants to be either a pilot or an Engineer ( Of the P. Eng. type)
is there anyone here that can tell me what they think?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Airline Pilot/ Engineer
My 10 cents, FWIW.
Stay away from flying, except for fun. The renumeration simply isn't worth it, any longer.
To invest in some sort of post-secondary, plus the required Licenses, plus the experience to get to an Airline...
To earn the money that the Airlines are paying. Forget it!
I've been in this business for a long time and am close to retiring. I am at the point, "the sooner, the better."
To have watched what has happened to this once proud Profession, is tragic.
Stay away from flying, except for fun. The renumeration simply isn't worth it, any longer.
To invest in some sort of post-secondary, plus the required Licenses, plus the experience to get to an Airline...
To earn the money that the Airlines are paying. Forget it!
I've been in this business for a long time and am close to retiring. I am at the point, "the sooner, the better."
To have watched what has happened to this once proud Profession, is tragic.
Re: Airline Pilot/ Engineer
If he has the aptitude to get an Engineering degree he will be set for life. Be aware that it's a particularly hard degree to get and takes a lot of work and time. However he will be able to afford flying lessons on the salary from his first job. Engineering, unlike law and many other professions, doesn't expect you to work like hell for peanuts when you start. That's what I did and now I fly my own plane.
This is in no way intended to be a slur on those who choose aviation as a profession.
This is in no way intended to be a slur on those who choose aviation as a profession.
randall g =%^)> C-GTUM - 1974 Cardinal RG - CZBB
BC Flying Photos
BC Flying Photos
Re: Airline Pilot/ Engineer
Does it have to be an either/or question?
While most families are not made of money and both types of training can be rather expensive, I know that their are a number of Engineers who are also pilots. A number of my family members have B.Eng's and from my experience the jobs available do have their pros and cons, but that they're different than flying.
In general, first jobs in Engineering will be easier to obtain and also better paying than first flying jobs. There's a pretty good chance that you'll be required to move to a more remote/isolated community (just like if you were flying) but instead of getting paid $8/hr to . bags or $23,000 a year as an F/O, you'll be paid a respectable starting salary.
Obviously, the jobs themselves can be quite different and that can also depend on the type of Engineering your nephew gets involved in. Get him to have a pretty clear idea of what type of job he wants to do before choosing a discipline. i.e. if he wants to do jobs that are primarily done by a Civil Engineer, don't go into Chemical or Computer Engineering.
Engineering is a great degree to have and it can open a lot of doors. It's a lot harder than a lot of other undergraduate degrees, including aviation, but having an Engineering degree can be quite useful. Possesing that type of technical knowledge would help him in the aviation industry (although it wouldn't automatically get him his 'dream' job). As well, for many other professions, having Engineering degree is really helpful. For example, I know that a law students who have an Engineering Degree are highly sought after by the law firms that do I.P. and Patent Law.
I had a friend who's now at Cathay Pacific who did his undergrad degree in Aeronautical Engineering at UBC. During the summers and partly in during the school year he worked on his licences, partly through money he earned from his co-op placemnets. He did all his co-ops at Aviation Companies and once he had his licences, managed to convince the program that flying up in Yellowknife for the summer was a valid co-op placement. So he essentially graduated with a B.Eng, a flying job right out of school and a great back up plan if the flying doesn't end up working out for him.
That can be quite expensive though. As randallg said, it can be a hard degree, so if you're not able to get the licences while in school, you can take flying lessons on the side once you start working. While you won't be filthy rich as an entry level engineer, you'll be in a better position to finance flying lessons. Heck, depending on where he lived and what his job was, he could even be a part-time instructor on the weekends once he has his licences. From there he can decide if he wants to be a pilot. It's much easier to go that way than be a pilot first and then try and go through University to become an Engineer.
Good Luck!
While most families are not made of money and both types of training can be rather expensive, I know that their are a number of Engineers who are also pilots. A number of my family members have B.Eng's and from my experience the jobs available do have their pros and cons, but that they're different than flying.
In general, first jobs in Engineering will be easier to obtain and also better paying than first flying jobs. There's a pretty good chance that you'll be required to move to a more remote/isolated community (just like if you were flying) but instead of getting paid $8/hr to . bags or $23,000 a year as an F/O, you'll be paid a respectable starting salary.
Obviously, the jobs themselves can be quite different and that can also depend on the type of Engineering your nephew gets involved in. Get him to have a pretty clear idea of what type of job he wants to do before choosing a discipline. i.e. if he wants to do jobs that are primarily done by a Civil Engineer, don't go into Chemical or Computer Engineering.
Engineering is a great degree to have and it can open a lot of doors. It's a lot harder than a lot of other undergraduate degrees, including aviation, but having an Engineering degree can be quite useful. Possesing that type of technical knowledge would help him in the aviation industry (although it wouldn't automatically get him his 'dream' job). As well, for many other professions, having Engineering degree is really helpful. For example, I know that a law students who have an Engineering Degree are highly sought after by the law firms that do I.P. and Patent Law.
I had a friend who's now at Cathay Pacific who did his undergrad degree in Aeronautical Engineering at UBC. During the summers and partly in during the school year he worked on his licences, partly through money he earned from his co-op placemnets. He did all his co-ops at Aviation Companies and once he had his licences, managed to convince the program that flying up in Yellowknife for the summer was a valid co-op placement. So he essentially graduated with a B.Eng, a flying job right out of school and a great back up plan if the flying doesn't end up working out for him.
That can be quite expensive though. As randallg said, it can be a hard degree, so if you're not able to get the licences while in school, you can take flying lessons on the side once you start working. While you won't be filthy rich as an entry level engineer, you'll be in a better position to finance flying lessons. Heck, depending on where he lived and what his job was, he could even be a part-time instructor on the weekends once he has his licences. From there he can decide if he wants to be a pilot. It's much easier to go that way than be a pilot first and then try and go through University to become an Engineer.
Good Luck!
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valvelifter
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Re: Airline Pilot/ Engineer
I had the same dilemma many years ago. I wanted to be an engineer but also wanted to fly planes. My parents, although saying they supported me in whatever my decision was, were trying to lean me towards going to University. I left it up to fate - if I would get accepted into the University of choice in my first-choice program, I would choose that. But if I were to have been refused or accepted into my second choice, I would take it as a sign to go for my passion. In the end, I was accepted and did nothing for flying for quite a fw years. You can't afford to fly when you are making minimum wage and paying off $120/course textbooks (and that was back then).
When I got a job I found myself flying as a pax quite a bit, and everytime I stepped into an airliner, I would p*ss in my pants with excitation. So a few years later I enrolled myself for flight courses and I have been having fun ever since then.
Two weeks ago, after stepping on an A320, I realized I still get that feeling of excitation and to be honest a part of me still regrets not going for my passion and I am sometimes jealous when I see the captain or F/O strap himself in the flight deck. I think what really factored in my decision many years ago was the need to have options in life. I knew that still in my teens I could go back to flying if the University thing didn't work for me, but it wouldn't be so easy the other way around b/c I would need to re-apply in a very competitive market.
But if you ask me what job would give me more satisfaction and diversity, and would make me live 5 years longer, I think I would choose aviation.
When I got a job I found myself flying as a pax quite a bit, and everytime I stepped into an airliner, I would p*ss in my pants with excitation. So a few years later I enrolled myself for flight courses and I have been having fun ever since then.
Two weeks ago, after stepping on an A320, I realized I still get that feeling of excitation and to be honest a part of me still regrets not going for my passion and I am sometimes jealous when I see the captain or F/O strap himself in the flight deck. I think what really factored in my decision many years ago was the need to have options in life. I knew that still in my teens I could go back to flying if the University thing didn't work for me, but it wouldn't be so easy the other way around b/c I would need to re-apply in a very competitive market.
But if you ask me what job would give me more satisfaction and diversity, and would make me live 5 years longer, I think I would choose aviation.
He who laughs last will laugh the hardest
Re: Airline Pilot/ Engineer
Your example perfectly reflects what I said about following your heart. You will regret or if given the chance again, re-evaluate the career decision you make.valvelifter wrote:I had the same dilemma many years ago. I wanted to be an engineer but also wanted to fly planes. My parents, although saying they supported me in whatever my decision was, were trying to lean me towards going to University. I left it up to fate - if I would get accepted into the University of choice in my first-choice program, I would choose that. But if I were to have been refused or accepted into my second choice, I would take it as a sign to go for my passion. In the end, I was accepted and did nothing for flying for quite a fw years. You can't afford to fly when you are making minimum wage and paying off $120/course textbooks (and that was back then).
When I got a job I found myself flying as a pax quite a bit, and everytime I stepped into an airliner, I would p*ss in my pants with excitation. So a few years later I enrolled myself for flight courses and I have been having fun ever since then.
Two weeks ago, after stepping on an A320, I realized I still get that feeling of excitation and to be honest a part of me still regrets not going for my passion and I am sometimes jealous when I see the captain or F/O strap himself in the flight deck. I think what really factored in my decision many years ago was the need to have options in life. I knew that still in my teens I could go back to flying if the University thing didn't work for me, but it wouldn't be so easy the other way around b/c I would need to re-apply in a very competitive market.
But if you ask me what job would give me more satisfaction and diversity, and would make me live 5 years longer, I think I would choose aviation.
What I say is this, flying is a very emotional thing. Most of us were attached with it since a very young age, so it is literally a part of us. If your family member is thinking about flying, I think it has been something that he's been attached with for quite a while. So here's my thought, why not go and become a pilot, and when he's working persay as an instructor or F/O off a navajo, go and get his degrees in a part time fashion. That way he takes his time and maybe completes a degree in 6 years instead of 4. It will be perfect timing for Air Canada anyway
hehe. But no seriously, I think if he likes engineering, he should definitely gain some knowledge in it. But remember, many times people get into a program because of not knowing the unknowns. Make sure your nephew or whom ever it is gets the clear picture, because if he doesn't face the reality now, it will come back and bite his ass quite hard. Once he/she knows all of his facts, he can follow his heart and see what fits him the most. That way he won't regret what he did because he had all the facts.
Good Luck
Re: Airline Pilot/ Engineer
Hi, I'm 23 and I just graduated last month with both a mechanical engineering degree and a CPL (but no IFR), so this topic seems particularly relevant to me. I can't tell your nephew which one to do, because I'm still VERY strongly conflicted myself about the subject. On the one hand, I can walk in to an engineering job that will pay me $50k per year plus, with good job security, benefits, and a bright future. On the other hand I can go get a floats job and see and learn a lot that you can't get anywhere else (The float/bush thing is the part of aviation I'm truly passionate about). I don't believe in giving advice about things I don't know about, so I will offer my thoughts on what I do know about - doing a CPL and BASc concurrently.
My advice is to take first year engineering at university as a full time student. This will help you determine whether engineering is really something you want. Find out how much fun university is, and see if you're one of the ~20% who fail out of first year engineering (they fail out another 20% in 2nd year too). If engineering isn't for you, don't take it too hard, it doesn't suit many bright people. If you had the aptitude to get into engineering, flight training will be no problem for you at all. In the summer after first year, sit down and blast through your PPL.
Go back to school in second year, but get a job in aviation now. I worked as a fueller/line crew at my local FBO. I worked part time on weekends. I was lucky enough to work in a shop that was busy (at an international airport), payed well, and respected my student schedule. Only look at outfits that do not promote their rampies to pilots, they will pay and treat you better. You will learn lots working at the airport that will help you immensely at flight school, and even if you don't end up flying engineering employers respect safety-critical experience working around multi-million dollar equipment.
Also, do NOT try to take flying lessons while taking engineering - the engineering courseload is way too heavy to make it work. The airport commute (which is often poorly served by transit, and therefore requires a poor student to have wheels) plus weather cancellations, plus the difficulty of scheduling flying around your academic life means that your lessons will be so infrequent and your mind will be so far removed from flying between them that you will waste LOTS of $$.
From here on in, I worked at the FBO part time through the school year, and 30-40 hours/wk in the summer. Every summer I did another rating and flew a bunch of cross country to build time. (I did my ratings in the order of night, tailwheel, multi, float). I didn't do coop, but spread my courses out to 5 years to make it easier to handle working while doing school. I'm graduating debt free, with 4 years solid aviation related work experience, and a lot of options. I've found that training your brain (or learning how to study) in engineering will help you kick ass at flight school, and that college chicks dig the fact that you're a pilot and have a cool job.
Telling them about how you just handled Bon Jovi's private jet is a great way to break the ice. 
There's certainly stuff you miss out on doing this route: a friend of mine who dropped out after first year engineering is now a captain on a king air, and I did have to skip many weekend university events because I was working. As well, financing your first university and a PPL without a job is downright impossible for many people. Even though I don't know where I'm going, I'm still pretty happy with where I'm at. At 18 years old a fresh out of high school, don't worry about sorting your life out right away; many people take well over a decade before they figure out what they really want. Other education/training/career routes are certainly possible, and there are big options that I haven't covered (coop for one). If you have any further questions don't hesitate to PM me.
My advice is to take first year engineering at university as a full time student. This will help you determine whether engineering is really something you want. Find out how much fun university is, and see if you're one of the ~20% who fail out of first year engineering (they fail out another 20% in 2nd year too). If engineering isn't for you, don't take it too hard, it doesn't suit many bright people. If you had the aptitude to get into engineering, flight training will be no problem for you at all. In the summer after first year, sit down and blast through your PPL.
Go back to school in second year, but get a job in aviation now. I worked as a fueller/line crew at my local FBO. I worked part time on weekends. I was lucky enough to work in a shop that was busy (at an international airport), payed well, and respected my student schedule. Only look at outfits that do not promote their rampies to pilots, they will pay and treat you better. You will learn lots working at the airport that will help you immensely at flight school, and even if you don't end up flying engineering employers respect safety-critical experience working around multi-million dollar equipment.
Also, do NOT try to take flying lessons while taking engineering - the engineering courseload is way too heavy to make it work. The airport commute (which is often poorly served by transit, and therefore requires a poor student to have wheels) plus weather cancellations, plus the difficulty of scheduling flying around your academic life means that your lessons will be so infrequent and your mind will be so far removed from flying between them that you will waste LOTS of $$.
From here on in, I worked at the FBO part time through the school year, and 30-40 hours/wk in the summer. Every summer I did another rating and flew a bunch of cross country to build time. (I did my ratings in the order of night, tailwheel, multi, float). I didn't do coop, but spread my courses out to 5 years to make it easier to handle working while doing school. I'm graduating debt free, with 4 years solid aviation related work experience, and a lot of options. I've found that training your brain (or learning how to study) in engineering will help you kick ass at flight school, and that college chicks dig the fact that you're a pilot and have a cool job.
Telling them about how you just handled Bon Jovi's private jet is a great way to break the ice. There's certainly stuff you miss out on doing this route: a friend of mine who dropped out after first year engineering is now a captain on a king air, and I did have to skip many weekend university events because I was working. As well, financing your first university and a PPL without a job is downright impossible for many people. Even though I don't know where I'm going, I'm still pretty happy with where I'm at. At 18 years old a fresh out of high school, don't worry about sorting your life out right away; many people take well over a decade before they figure out what they really want. Other education/training/career routes are certainly possible, and there are big options that I haven't covered (coop for one). If you have any further questions don't hesitate to PM me.
Re: Airline Pilot/ Engineer
My niece's father is an airline pilot; she was heading that way, then chose professional engineering. Her parents' marriage also succumbed to AIDS (aviation-induced divorce syndrome). I think that played a big part in her career change.
The pilots I know/knew seem to be generally loners, so I think personality should play into the equasion. Most of them are divorced - seemed to be happier on a trip vs. home with the wife and kids. My best friend's father was also a pilot for one of the majors. He did not divorce, but bought another house 100 miles away - and spent most of his non-flying time there. How strange...or should I say "sad" is that? My friend to this day says she never really knew her dad.
This isn't always the case, of course. If a person is happy with his career choice, that will have a positive effect on their home life.
The pilots I know/knew seem to be generally loners, so I think personality should play into the equasion. Most of them are divorced - seemed to be happier on a trip vs. home with the wife and kids. My best friend's father was also a pilot for one of the majors. He did not divorce, but bought another house 100 miles away - and spent most of his non-flying time there. How strange...or should I say "sad" is that? My friend to this day says she never really knew her dad.
This isn't always the case, of course. If a person is happy with his career choice, that will have a positive effect on their home life.
